So....they are tunneling under Hulsey? (Atlanta: lofts, house, buying)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by jero23

North American is developing the properties including one that was formerly a metal scrap yard at 75 Airline Street, the now-abandoned right-of-way for the original Beltline alignment along 670 and 690 Dekalb Avenue into a mixed use development. Dekalb Avenue will remain as is alignment-wise. However, the FTA documentation specifies aside from the tunnel under Hulsey Yard two other alternatives for the rail transit component for the Beltline. ABI (Atlanta Beltline, Inc.) will determine which one is the most feasible after the completion of the environmental assessment phase of the process.

In other words, all of this back and forth are hypothetical because no final decision has been made yet on the final route of this portion of the rail transit component of the Beltline. What is known is the multiuse trail will make a jog east in a 270-degree angle to follow Dekalb Avenue to Krog Street.

True, and the tunnel would score low on the FTA check list if there is a cheaper alternative that has direct connection to an existing station.

[magnetar]

Krog St. infill station and light rail tunneling under Hulsey are two entirely separate, though potentially complementary ideas. One isn't reliant on the other. Particularly not if the King Memorial route gets built first.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by magnetar

Krog St. infill station and light rail tunneling under Hulsey are two entirely separate, though potentially complementary ideas. One isn't reliant on the other. Particularly not if the King Memorial route gets built first.

They may not be functionally reliant on the other, but due to the complexities of area's geometry and the sheer amount of engineering work involved, they would need to be planned in tandem.

Contrary to perceptions, there's absolutly nothing simple about the work that will need to take place to get this done, let alone the pile of capital that will need to be in place to afford the projects.

[magnetar]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Contrary to perceptions, there's absolutly nothing simple about the work that will need to take place to get this done, let alone the pile of capital that will need to be in place to afford the projects.

I haven't seen any evidence yet that anyone is underestimating how much time or money it would take to make either of these projects happen. If Atlanta collectively has a problem with our attitudes toward major infrastructure projects, it's cynicism, not naïve enthusiasm.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by magnetar

I haven't seen any evidence yet that anyone is underestimating how much time or money it would take to make either of these projects happen. If Atlanta collectively has a problem with our attitudes toward major infrastructure projects, it's cynicism, not naïve enthusiasm.

^^^^^^
This.


And sadly, if Atlanta was un-visionary like this in the past, it would not be the major international city/Capital of the American South that it is today.

[demonta4]

Originally Posted by aries4118

^^^^^^
This.


And sadly, if Atlanta was un-visionary like this in the past, it would not be the major international city/Capital of the American South that it is today.

You're absolutely right. Imagine if we hadn't raised downtown above the rail lines, if we hadn't dug a heavy rail line through stone, if we hadn't built an airport between three freeways, and if we hadn't done the impossible and bid for the Olympics. Atlanta in the past didn't sweat hard projects. The mere fact that our railroad system and the original Beltline even existed is proof of Atlanta's ingenuity.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by magnetar

Krog St. infill station and light rail tunneling under Hulsey are two entirely separate, though potentially complementary ideas. One isn't reliant on the other. Particularly not if the King Memorial route gets built first.

Why would transit connection not be reliant on each other? Why build a multi-hundred million dollar tunnel if it is not going to connect to MARTA? Why build a multi-hundred million dollar infill station if it isn't going to connect to the Streetcar/LRT network? FTA will look at connecting to existing transit in their decision.

[magnetar]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Why would transit connection not be reliant on each other? Why build a multi-hundred million dollar tunnel if it is not going to connect to MARTA? Why build a multi-hundred million dollar infill station if it isn't going to connect to the Streetcar/LRT network? FTA will look at connecting to existing transit in their decision.

I know you're a smart guy; I think you already know the answers to these questions but I'll write them down anyway.

Why would transit connection not be reliant on each other?

Because if the King Memorial route gets built first, the MARTA connection to the streetcar system is covered. This route could come later, and be a direct north-south route between O4W/IP and Cabbage/Reynoldstown.

Why build a multi-hundred million dollar tunnel if it is not going to connect to MARTA?

Because the goal of the tunnel, like the rest of the Beltline, is to create a new transportation corridor (and the redevelopment opportunities that come with it). Connecting to MARTA is a goal, but not the only goal.

Why build a multi-hundred million dollar infill station if it isn't going to connect to the Streetcar/LRT network?

No one is saying that they should not connect, I'm just saying that they're two separate projects and one isn't necessary for the other to happen. If the streetcar to King Memorial gets built first, they'll already be connected.

One more time—when I advocate for a Hulsey Yard streetcar connection, I'm not saying we shouldn't build the Memorial route. I'm saying that if the Beltline is really the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to build a new transit corridor around Atlanta, let's not limit our options for the future before we've even started putting down tracks. It's worth remembering that the reason we're having this conversation right now is because Atlanta Beltline, Inc. showed up at a neighborhood meeting with a plan for a tunnel that would have been massively more expensive than the most recent design they gave to Curbed, and still wouldn't have done anything for pedestrians and cyclists. ABI has to consider multiple routes; so why not ensure that they're studying the best possible version of each?

Edit: Just minutes after writing this, they sent out an updated notice that the upcoming meeting on the 20th will cover this topic. I'm really bummed that I'm going to be out of town for work, but y'all should go if you can.

[magnetar]

The implications of not building the tunnel would be devastating. Our already-crowded trail would be permanently stuck through the already-congested Krog Street tunnel and its obvious traffic safety and capacity problems. And a discontinuous transit loop or traffic-choked transit alternative would literally disenfranchise all of south Atlanta from the promise of the Atlanta Beltline and devalue the land along the way.

For these reasons, I’m standing by my earlier statements. While I’m confident we can engineer ourselves out of any problem, we have to ask ourselves at what cost? And why? We’ve always known that this particular parcel is a critical link in the Atlanta Beltline and our ability to deliver on its promise, so we need to be extremely careful. With our children and the world watching, we also need to be aspirational and maintain the highest expectations for the entire 22-mile loop. We have no reason to do otherwise.

— Ryan Gravel, "Are we willing to settle for less?"

[fourthwarden]

magnetar, do you have a link to the posted meeting that you included the flyer for? The one on the 20th?