Cobb leaders are calling transit connectivity imperative (land, money)

[walker1962]

Originally Posted by bu2

Houston Strategies: Unity vs. fragmentation in metro areas

Interesting discussion on metro area "unity." Most of the discussion is on Detroit and Houston, but its relevant here, especially with the emphasis the ARC is putting on creating "town centers" throughout the metro.

"...We are also reasonably central within one large county rather than broken up among many counties like metro Atlanta or the SF Bay Area. This also helped keep most of the big name attractions in the core of Houston like stadiums and museums. Compare this to Dallas, where the center of gravity has shifted dramatically towards DFW airport, including 2 of the 3 major sports stadiums....

As I've said before, when employers move 20-30 minutes out, employees then feel comfortable moving 20-30 minutes out beyond that where they can get a big house and plot of land uber-cheap, DC and Detroit being prime examples. When people live, work, and play outside of the core city, they stop really caring about it or identifying with it, and that includes no longer supporting core nonprofit museum, arts, or charitable organizations...."

I'm from Houston and live in D/FW. There is some shift westward for entertainment venues with the Cowboys moving to Arlington/Tarrant County but employment centers remain in Dallas County and Collin county to the north of the city of Dallas. In fact, an article was just written this month, December, questioning whether Fort Worth was becoming a suburb of Dallas because the western neighbor is not attracting companies as its neighbors to the east are doing. That's not to say FW isn't growing, its is and has a new 14,000 seat arena under construction; BUT, its lagging. This let's me segway into the talk of multipurpose entertainment venues comparison - D/FW has more offerings:


Houston - NRG Stadium complex, Arena Theatre, Cynthia Woods Mitchell Pavilion, Miller Outdoor Theatre, Toyota Center, Jones Hall, House of Blues, Bayou Place, Wortham Center, Alley Theater, and the Smart Financial Center (new) in Sugarland.


D/FW - AT&T Stadium, American Airlines Center, Eisemann Center, House of Blues, Winspear Opera House, Wyly Theatre, Meyerson Symphony Hall, Music Hall at Fair Park, Dickies Arena (Fort Worth under construction), Will Rogers Arena (FW), Majestic Theatre, Verizon Theatre, Lava Cantina (new), and Toyota Music Factory (new).

[walker1962]

I resided in ATL also, the north of the Perimeter. The metro area is frankly screwed in terms of transportation infrastructure. Too many have moved there without implementing a TIMELY and COMPREHENSIVE mobility plan. Anyone who has live there 20 tp 25 years just jog your memories and list on this thread MAJOR road and public thoroughfare additions. Don't list "the Beltline" because that's got no material impact in terms transit. I recall the addition of like two/three MARTA rail stations along GA 400 since 1990 but that's it. No outer perimeter which has been a pipe dream for 25 years. No new crosstown highway anywhere. And though Hartsfield Jackson is a great airport, the decision back in the early 1990s not to build a second airport in Gwinnett County will come back to bite Georgia. Houston, D/FW, Chicago, SF/San Jose, L.A. D.C. NYC even Miami, have TWO or MORE passenger airports.


Atlanta spent billions just to add a 4th runway this decade. D/FW International has six with room for 9. Add in close-in Love Field and the Metroplex has 9 runways already operational. The lack of foresight of the State of Georgia will eventually curb economic opportunitie.

[primaltech]

Texas sucks, and I'm glad I don't live there. No one cares about your dumb airport. Go away. Not sure what all these posts and bumps the last couple of pages have to do with Cobb, or why Dallas guy above me chooses to spend his time negative-trolling the Atlanta forum, or why that's apparently allowed, while half my posts and threads get deleted or moved lately if every other word isn't Atlanta.

This thread is a catch-all for discussion of transit in Cobb County, GA: existing, future, theoretical, or any news related to that. And no other unrelated discussion. Thank you.

I heard a grapevine rumor the other day from the president of my community HOA, that he heard from whomever leadership in the Vinings Village community, that that person supposedly heard from someone in Cobb government, that commuter rail is coming. Taking it with a grain of salt, but I hope so.

[SEAandATL]

Originally Posted by walker1962

I resided in ATL also, the north of the Perimeter. The metro area is frankly screwed in terms of transportation infrastructure. Too many have moved there without implementing a TIMELY and COMPREHENSIVE mobility plan. Anyone who has live there 20 tp 25 years just jog your memories and list on this thread MAJOR road and public thoroughfare additions. Don't list "the Beltline" because that's got no material impact in terms transit. I recall the addition of like two/three MARTA rail stations along GA 400 since 1990 but that's it. No outer perimeter which has been a pipe dream for 25 years. No new crosstown highway anywhere. And though Hartsfield Jackson is a great airport, the decision back in the early 1990s not to build a second airport in Gwinnett County will come back to bite Georgia. Houston, D/FW, Chicago, SF/San Jose, L.A. D.C. NYC even Miami, have TWO or MORE passenger airports.


Atlanta spent billions just to add a 4th runway this decade. D/FW International has six with room for 9. Add in close-in Love Field and the Metroplex has 9 runways already operational. The lack of foresight of the State of Georgia will eventually curb economic opportunitie.

Where is Miami's 2nd airport, Fort Lauderdale? There's plenty of cities of similar size as Atlanta that only have one airport as well, such as Seattle, Detroit, Denver, San Diego, and plenty others.

As far as infrastructure the Atlanta Streetcar has been the only thing added, plus the toll lanes. Let's hope that changes fast. In the meantime, thank God I live in Sandy Springs near a MARTA station and I'll be working from home.

[arjay57]

Seems to me it would help a lot to change people's working patterns.

If we do things like getting more people working on staggered schedules, working from home, living closer to their jobs, etc., that could make a real dent in transportation issues. Even increasing these numbers by 10-15% would be worth untold billions in infrastructure spending.

The major transportation problems are limited to a few hours a day. These "rush hours" are really artificially created by the way we structure work.

Planning for transportation based on artificially created rush hours is sort of like building gigantic parking lots based on After Thanksgiving sales. They are hugely disruptive and expensive and they sit there unused most of the time.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by walker1962

I resided in ATL also, the north of the Perimeter. The metro area is frankly screwed in terms of transportation infrastructure. Too many have moved there without implementing a TIMELY and COMPREHENSIVE mobility plan. Anyone who has live there 20 tp 25 years just jog your memories and list on this thread MAJOR road and public thoroughfare additions. Don't list "the Beltline" because that's got no material impact in terms transit. I recall the addition of like two/three MARTA rail stations along GA 400 since 1990 but that's it. No outer perimeter which has been a pipe dream for 25 years. No new crosstown highway anywhere. And though Hartsfield Jackson is a great airport, the decision back in the early 1990s not to build a second airport in Gwinnett County will come back to bite Georgia. Houston, D/FW, Chicago, SF/San Jose, L.A. D.C. NYC even Miami, have TWO or MORE passenger airports.


Atlanta spent billions just to add a 4th runway this decade. D/FW International has six with room for 9. Add in close-in Love Field and the Metroplex has 9 runways already operational. The lack of foresight of the State of Georgia will eventually curb economic opportunitie.

KATL has five runways, not four, and they can be (and are) all operational simultaneously. Two of KDFW's runways are diagonal to the other five, meaning that they can't be used efficiently, if at all, while the other five are active. Both KATL and KDFW have roughly the same hourly capacity of 220 movements per hour - yet KATL has over 300 more daily departures than KDFW, and over 100 more than KDFW and KDAL combined.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by evannole

KATL has five runways, not four, and they can be (and are) all operational simultaneously. Two of KDFW's runways are diagonal to the other five, meaning that they can't be used efficiently, if at all, while the other five are active. Both KATL and KDFW have roughly the same hourly capacity of 220 movements per hour - yet KATL has over 300 more daily departures than KDFW, and over 100 more than KDFW and KDAL combined.

Exactly! We don't need a 2nd Airport, and the 6th runway will be happening in the near future. The Airport Sheraton was recently sold to make way for it.

[LTCM]

Originally Posted by evannole

KATL has five runways, not four, and they can be (and are) all operational simultaneously. Two of KDFW's runways are diagonal to the other five, meaning that they can't be used efficiently, if at all, while the other five are active. Both KATL and KDFW have roughly the same hourly capacity of 220 movements per hour - yet KATL has over 300 more daily departures than KDFW, and over 100 more than KDFW and KDAL combined.

Is that true? I thought only up to four could be used simultaneously due to runway separation issues?

[MattCW]

Can have three for landings, 2 for takeoffs. So from North to South it could be L T L T L. The planes on the takeoff runways will be turning away from each other, and the planes landing can come from different directions and only get close in the last few miles to touchdown.

[JoeP]

Delta has been fighting against another airport for years. What they want, should not matter, but clearly they are impacting things. Others too, I'm sure.

Regarding Cobb, it's unbelievable that money is wasted on the ridiculous toll lane, when that land would have been ideal for a rail line or BRT.