More Highway Widening (Atlanta, Gainesville, Commerce: landscaping, pollution, design)

[primaltech]

I mean, it's a Phase 1 of the project to widen I-85 out to the border. It will help that northeast corridor to some degree.

Jackson County, GA (county seat Jefferson) is halfway between Atlanta and South Carolina. And U.S. 129 is a main arterial road that heads into both Gainesville and Athens. That's why they're at least temporarily ending it there.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by primaltech

That argument exactly applies to a place like Forsyth County. Widening projects there now, are because of trying to keep up with the population growth up there due to GA-400 construction and widening.

But, there's a commute time/distance threshold, where the number of people willing to do that twice every day, starts to drop off quickly.

Jackson County is easily double the commute time to Atlanta's main job centers as Forsyth is, even with this widening. Therefore, Jackson will not sprawl-boom like Forsyth did, which directly borders Alpharetta's jobs.

GA 400 Outlets and surrounding subdivisions in North Forsyth = 48 miles to midtown Atlanta

Furthest extent of this widening = 53 miles to midtown Atlanta.

5 miles can be covered in what, 5 minutes on an open highway? Wasn't someone saying 5 minutes of commute time doesn't matter? If someone can find a house in Jackson county for significantly less don't you think they might choose to live there if you made that commute five minutes faster?

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I mean, it's a Phase 1 of the project to widen I-85 out to the border. It will help that northeast corridor to some degree.

Jackson County, GA (county seat Jefferson) is halfway between Atlanta and South Carolina. And U.S. 129 is a main arterial road that heads into both Gainesville and Athens. That's why they're at least temporarily ending it there.

Actually it is being built in 2 phases. And there are only 2 phases planned.

[primaltech]

South Forsyth is more the part of the county that exploded in population after GA-400 was finished. But even the midpoint of Forsyth is only a few miles from Alpharetta's jobs, and within commute distance of Perimeter and Buckhead. (Though the traffic sucks, obviously.)

Forsyth's also near the lake, which likely attracts people a lot more than a random location in the country would.

GA-400 is a jobs corridor all the way up and down it, but I-85 really is not, or much less so. It's a residential corridor, mostly occupied by the massive Gwinnett. There are jobs in Gwinnett, but it's nothing like Perimeter Center or even Alpharetta.

All in all, I don't see much suburban sprawl happening on the northeast corridor way out there. More likely to be suburbs of Gainesville and Athens, which should grow into their own as more major cities in time.

[jsvh]

Great, let's just build some tolled lanes for those trucks and call it a day then.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by jsvh

GA 400 Outlets and surrounding subdivisions in North Forsyth = 48 miles to midtown Atlanta

Furthest extent of this widening = 53 miles to midtown Atlanta.

5 miles can be covered in what, 5 minutes on an open highway? Wasn't someone saying 5 minutes of commute time doesn't matter? If someone can find a house in Jackson county for significantly less don't you think they might choose to live there if you made that commute five minutes faster?

Not if that "five minute faster commute" in that segment means an additional 30 minutes for them. I mean do you seriously think 5 minutes on the outer segment will suddenly entice someone to go from a 30 mile to a 60 mile commute? At this point, I seriously think you're just trolling for laughs.

[jsvh]

Most will be only do slightly longer commutes moving to a new exurban subdivision. Some will do shorter. Think someone who works in Larwenceville and moves from Peachtree City to Jackson county. But, yes, some will do significantly longer commutes. I know people that have moved from in the city limits to outer Forsyth county, more than doubling their commute.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Simple reality is that people seriously consider their commute time in where they live.

If you shorten the commute time to an area, you increase the demand for people who want to live in that area. Not a hard concept.

Anyone who says "Well, Ethel...the commute was 75 minutes, but now it's 70 minutes...so we are going to move" is a Grade A moron. Do you really think that widening a highway nearly 20 miles outside the perimeter is going to create some massive new demand to live that far away when it wasn't there previously?

Originally Posted by jsvh

So this commercial shipping and mountain traffic only goes as far as Jackson county?

Reading. Comprehension. Please, for once...try it. Overall, the widening will be done the SC border. These are the first projects of that. No one does a 70-mile widening project all at once. Jesus Christ.

And honestly if that was the case, then they should still be building them tolled like the truck lanes on I-75 south side.

You're absolutely correct. It should be just like 75 on the south side where the toll lanes are.

So...let's make it 3-4 untolled lanes each side and two tolled lanes in the middle. Hey, you said to do it like 75 south side.

Originally Posted by jsvh

Most will be only do slightly longer commutes moving to a new exurban subdivision. Some will do shorter. Think someone who works in Larwenceville and moves from Peachtree City to Jackson county.

Yeah! Yeah! Think of someone who moves from Macon to Cumming for their commute to Alpharetta!!! Those awful highways entice them!!! Seriously...do you honestly think these ridiculous examples support your case in any way?

But, yes, some will do significantly longer commutes. I know people that have moved from in the city limits to outer Forsyth county, more than doubling their commute.

And what is the point of this? If they moved from inside the city limit to outer Forsyth, and they work in the city, then their commute far more than doubled. They didn't do it because a wider highway made it enticing. They did it because they didn't want to be in the city any more. Again...what is this example supposed to prove?

Originally Posted by MattCW

At this point, I seriously think you're just trolling for laughs.

I'm with you. No one is THIS incapable of understanding reality.

[jsvh]

Got to love how y'all simultaneously think this won't improve traffic enough to make a difference to anyone yet also still want the millions of tax dollars spent to do it.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Got to love how y'all simultaneously think this won't improve traffic enough to make a difference to anyone yet also still want the millions of tax dollars spent to do it.

That's not what we said. Please try again.