Still No Progress On Multimodal Terminal (Atlanta, Savannah: buying, costs, airport)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Something like that would make sense if they get commuter rail out to Clayton some day.

However, it doesn't seem like that would call for the spending of gazillions of dollars at this point.

The point of the MMPT, was to use P3 funding mechanism and leverage private development (commercial, residential, etc.) to fund the public infrastructure part. GDPT, CoA, MARTA, etc. was not going to fund the entire project from public, taxpayer funds.

[arjay57]

Well if it is done with private funding I say go for it.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by primaltech

If they're laying all new tracks in the corridor though (as they probably will have to), couldn't they have the passenger tracks from Emory to Armour, curve a sharp left to go down thru Atlantic Station? Or is any configuration of that just too sharp? Seems like it might be possible.

But why take the harder route when it's not necessary? Is everyone on here just obsessed with taking a train through Howell Junction? In theory you put a curve on a viaduct there, but you'd have to carefully weave it around the Clifton Corridor and MARTA.

Anyway, I thought the whole point of the Atlanta Beltline was as a pedestrian corridor. Commuter rail running on the Beltline (either the Piedmont Hospital/northwest section or the Piedmont Park/northeast section), seems really dangerous, and very unlikely. So that's out.

I didn't mention anything about the beltline since I've fought that topic in previous topics. But since you mention it, the NE beltline is wide enough for two out of three: commuter rail, LRT or the trail. They can happily coexist with the right protections (basically, a fence). The trail can go anywhere, so that leaves LRT sharing space with commuter rail.

And having the Emory/Tucker/Lawrenceville line run a parallel with a large section of the Blue/Green line into Downtown via Hulsey, is OK I guess, but it seems like huge wasted potential, and service duplication.

How is it service duplication? Any Lawrenceville train's last stop inbound would be Emory.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by MattCW

But why take the harder route when it's not necessary? Is everyone on here just obsessed with taking a train through Howell Junction? In theory you put a curve on a viaduct there, but you'd have to carefully weave it around the Clifton Corridor and MARTA.

I didn't mention anything about the beltline since I've fought that topic in previous topics. But since you mention it, the NE beltline is wide enough for two out of three: commuter rail, LRT or the trail. They can happily coexist with the right protections (basically, a fence). The trail can go anywhere, so that leaves LRT sharing space with commuter rail.

How is it service duplication? Any Lawrenceville train's last stop inbound would be Emory.

Not Northlake?

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Not Northlake?

No...unless you want to skip Emory, but that would be a colossally bad decision to not stop at a huge college, with a link to local transit (Clifton Corridor).

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by MattCW

But why take the harder route when it's not necessary? Is everyone on here just obsessed with taking a train through Howell Junction? In theory you put a curve on a viaduct there, but you'd have to carefully weave it around the Clifton Corridor and MARTA.

I would rather avoid Howell whenever possible, though I think that there is potential for viaducts or tunnels for passenger service to avoid the junction.

There is room from Howell on up for a third track, with some sections actually having a third track already. It seems to me that MARTA could build that third track, with passing sidings in strategic places, and be the only one operating on that line.

I wonder if there's any potential to build a junction where the NS tracks cross over the CSX line there at Armor. I don't know if it'd be terribly useful, but it might.

I didn't mention anything about the beltline since I've fought that topic in previous topics. But since you mention it, the NE beltline is wide enough for two out of three: commuter rail, LRT or the trail. They can happily coexist with the right protections (basically, a fence). The trail can go anywhere, so that leaves LRT sharing space with commuter rail.

Yeah, we've talked ad nauseum on that topic, and I still think there's no way commuter rail and light rail would effectively fit in the Eastside Trail alignment, nor should the trail be rerouted.

How is it service duplication? Any Lawrenceville train's last stop inbound would be Emory.

As well it should be. Northlake & Tucker would be a good Perimeter stop, though.

[tikigod311]

I think a tunnel avoiding that junction with stations in west midtown (sorry) would be a worthy investment. From the Howell junction area into the MMPT is about 3 miles. A tunnel would serve multiple lines and could provide local service to a growing part of town. There are some routes that would provide for pretty easy cut and cover

[primaltech]

If the Lawrenceville commuter rail line went the Hulsey -> Clairmont route Matt is suggesting, then the final inbound stop before MMPT should be Edgewood or Inman Park. Because, Downtown Decatur is a popular destination. You shouldn't have to go all the way to Five Points to transfer train modes, just to go right back the same way you came, in order to get to Decatur.

The second stop would be Emory @ Clairmont. Then N Druid Hills Rd (optional stop), then Northlake, then Tucker, then Lilburn, Reagan Pkwy, Lawrenceville, Dacula. With the walkable stops in the city downtowns also having park & ride decks.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

I would rather avoid Howell whenever possible, though I think that there is potential for viaducts or tunnels for passenger service to avoid the junction.

Sure there's "potential" but is it a potential that's a reasonable use of resources? I quite simply do not understand why you and others are fighting so so hard to run passenger service through Howell, especially when the Lawrenceville route is 3 miles longer going through Howell, on slower, more congested tracks. Don't forget either, that passenger trains will also be coming down from Cobb and from Douglas County through Howell, unlike Lawrenceville, they don't have a choice of routing.

There is room from Howell on up for a third track, with some sections actually having a third track already. It seems to me that MARTA could build that third track, with passing sidings in strategic places, and be the only one operating on that line.

The problem, as you even somewhat note below, isn't the mainline, double tracking what isn't (North of Norcross for the I-85 line, everywhere for either Lawrenceville line) will more than suffice.

I wonder if there's any potential to build a junction where the NS tracks cross over the CSX line there at Armor. I don't know if it'd be terribly useful, but it might.

Yes, that would be useful. The problem though with the Armour routing and I-85 lines is where do you land the viaduct or raise the tunnels. Unless you build fully grade-separated track all the way out, they have to reconnect somewhere and that takes space.

Yeah, we've talked ad nauseum on that topic, and I still think there's no way commuter rail and light rail would effectively fit in the Eastside Trail alignment, nor should the trail be rerouted.

Too tired to get into this one again, skipping for now.

As well it should be. Northlake & Tucker would be a good Perimeter stop, though.

No doubt.

Originally Posted by tikigod311

I think a tunnel avoiding that junction with stations in west midtown (sorry) would be a worthy investment. From the Howell junction area into the MMPT is about 3 miles. A tunnel would serve multiple lines and could provide local service to a growing part of town. There are some routes that would provide for pretty easy cut and cover

I think a viaduct would be better, it's far cheaper than a tunnel, easier to construct, and the landings are easier. But beyond a station around 10th street, I don't see the need for extensive local service.

Originally Posted by primaltech

If the Lawrenceville commuter rail line went the Hulsey -> Clairmont route Matt is suggesting, then the final inbound stop before MMPT should be Edgewood or Inman Park. Because, Downtown Decatur is a popular destination. You shouldn't have to go all the way to Five Points to transfer train modes, just to go right back the same way you came, in order to get to Decatur.

How many people are coming down from Gwinnett going to Decatur? How many the other way? Not many. There is no need to have a transfer anywhere but Emory to the Clifton Corridor and to local bus service to Decatur. Route 19 already runs right from the heart of Decatur up to where an Emory station on the Parkline routing would be.

The second stop would be Emory @ Clairmont. Then N Druid Hills Rd (optional stop), then Northlake, then Tucker, then Lilburn, Reagan Pkwy, Lawrenceville, Dacula. With the walkable stops in the city downtowns also having park & ride decks.

There's no need for a N. Druid Hills stop. There's no activity center near there for either originating or arriving traffic, nor is it on the route of most of the traffic through the area to justify making the extra stop on a long-distance commuter rail route. Otherwise though I agree with the addition of stops at Lilburn and Sugarloaf parkway. I'd also put a large P&R station at the Lawrenceville airport (behind the police department training center).

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by MattCW

There is no need to have a transfer anywhere but Emory to the Clifton Corridor and to local bus service to Decatur. Route 19 already runs right from the heart of Decatur up to where an Emory station on the Parkline routing would be.

Ok, yeah, good point.

There's no need for a N. Druid Hills stop. There's no activity center near there for either originating or arriving traffic, nor is it on the route of most of the traffic through the area to justify making the extra stop on a long-distance commuter rail route.

Eh, maybe for cars driving in on 78. Plus a nice rail connection point along bus route 8, with the North DeKalb Mall area real near there.

But, yeah, definitely not a crucial stop. However, I would put a commuter stop with tons of parking at Northlake Pkwy just east of 285, and then also one in Downtown Tucker, with minimal or no parking.

The Northlake stop could cover the commuters coming in from the 78 corridor.