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Old 12-30-2016, 08:25 PM
 
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Peachtree is more than just a high end shopping street...it is literally the cultural and economic spine of Atlanta.
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Old 12-30-2016, 08:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTarheel View Post
Peachtree Street is one of the most recognized street names in the U.S. I've been to Dallas several times and don't really remember Preston Road...it may be a great, memorable street and the main retail street in Dallas but I just didn't venture there. I'm not much of a shopper so...

Davison's was also a home grown Atlanta retailer than was bought out and retired by Macy's. Rich's and Davison's were Atlanta's department stores until Macy's had to ruin them. As far as luxury retail most of it is in Buckhead in Lenox Square, Phipps Plaza or Buckhead Atlanta - all on Peachtree Street.
Buckhead reminds me of the Galleria Uptown retail area in Houston. Dallas has four Gallerias though. Indeed, one can't get any better than matching a Neiman Marcus with NorthPark Center, Highland Park Village, matching Stanley Korshak witht The Crescent, and a Forty-Five-Ten department store located next to another Neiman Marcus department store downtown.
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Old 12-31-2016, 09:55 AM
bu2
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas retail updater View Post
What about the Dallas Parkway? It has Inwood Village, Preston Center, the Galleria Dallas, and the Shops at Willow Bend built along it. See, I'm just considering the retail based along the corridors and not the towers. Outside International luxury has yet to defeat the homegrown luxury in Dallas. That is a major difference between Dallas and Houston. Houston doesn't have much local luxury to compete. I am certain that Atlanta, like Dallas, also has ample amounts of quality local retail stores and boutiques that get little to no international attention.
Peachtree is more than just the shopping mecca of Atlanta. That makes it different than Preston.
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Old 12-31-2016, 01:14 PM
 
254 posts, read 189,895 times
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Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Peachtree is more than just the shopping mecca of Atlanta. That makes it different than Preston.
Are you sure? I think people confuse density with urban. One can be dense with lots of both tall office buildings and high rise residences. However, if they don't have any retail in the area, they are still suburban in the sense that they still have to drive when they shop.

Urban has nothing to do with tall and dense. It has the sufficient prerequisite retail that allows one to live much of the time without a car.

Perhaps Preston Road and Peachtree don't compare?

By my definition, Atlanta sounds more dense while Dallas is more urban.
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Old 12-31-2016, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,574 posts, read 10,686,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas retail updater View Post
Are you sure? I think people confuse density with urban. One can be dense with lots of both tall office buildings and high rise residences. However, if they don't have any retail in the area, they are still suburban in the sense that they still have to drive when they shop.

Urban has nothing to do with tall and dense. It has the sufficient prerequisite retail that allows one to live much of the time without a car.

Perhaps Preston Road and Peachtree don't compare?

By my definition, Atlanta sounds more dense while Dallas is more urban.
I sort of see the basis for an argument that the correct levels of retail make for livability. What is awkward about the argument is department stores must have large retail trade areas to survive. The retail that promotes livability is really more of the small kind. The things that give people their day to day needs (ie. food marts, restaurants, general merchandise shops, etc...)

That aside. I think you need to visit Atlanta.

Now what is awkward whenever Atlanta is compared to another city, Dallas included: Dallas is overall more dense than Atlanta. Atlanta is built on hills and we run with it. We build into the hills, after the 70s federal law changes we have a large amount of land that is actually the floodplain for a small stream that we can't (and probably shouldn't) develop.

So overall Atlanta tends to be just that much more sparse than other sunbelt cities. The awkwardness and sometimes conflicting-sounding arguments is partly because of our being more spread out, we have nodes that are more quickly densely developed. Buckhead compared to Uptown Galleria in Houston is a prime example. Uptown is a bit more spread out and Buckhead (as a CBD) is actually very compact over a limited area where redevelopment was allowed. Buckhead is larger and more tightly developed as a CBD, but the area around it is more sparsely populated single-family homes relative to the areas around Uptown.

This keeps coming up as we are talking about Peachtree St, because it represents and goes through these dense nodes. The highrises built on Peachtree in between, but you won't find them as much on other streets outside of a business district.


Other differences to spot out: Atlanta doesn't quite have anything like Uptown in Dallas, at least in terms of scale. Dallas doesn't quite have anything like Midtown or buckhead in terms of scale.

We do have a developing Beltline. Imagine if you took Uptown and spread it out into a long linear line, that is sort of what our Beltline is becoming. It has a ways to go.

While both cities have similar sunbelt build deisgns, what Dallas (and Houston) has a whole lot more than Atlanta are the in between areas in a normal neighborhood. This is also why Atlanta is known for having such an extensive tree canopy.
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Old 12-31-2016, 04:02 PM
 
254 posts, read 189,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
I sort of see the basis for an argument that the correct levels of retail make for livability. What is awkward about the argument is department stores must have large retail trade areas to survive. The retail that promotes livability is really more of the small kind. The things that give people their day to day needs (ie. food marts, restaurants, general merchandise shops, etc...)

That aside. I think you need to visit Atlanta.

Now what is awkward whenever Atlanta is compared to another city, Dallas included: Dallas is overall more dense than Atlanta. Atlanta is built on hills and we run with it. We build into the hills, after the 70s federal law changes we have a large amount of land that is actually the floodplain for a small stream that we can't (and probably shouldn't) develop.

So overall Atlanta tends to be just that much more sparse than other sunbelt cities. The awkwardness and sometimes conflicting-sounding arguments is partly because of our being more spread out, we have nodes that are more quickly densely developed. Buckhead compared to Uptown Galleria in Houston is a prime example. Uptown is a bit more spread out and Buckhead (as a CBD) is actually very compact over a limited area where redevelopment was allowed. Buckhead is larger and more tightly developed as a CBD, but the area around it is more sparsely populated single-family homes relative to the areas around Uptown.

This keeps coming up as we are talking about Peachtree St, because it represents and goes through these dense nodes. The highrises built on Peachtree in between, but you won't find them as much on other streets outside of a business district.


Other differences to spot out: Atlanta doesn't quite have anything like Uptown in Dallas, at least in terms of scale. Dallas doesn't quite have anything like Midtown or buckhead in terms of scale.

We do have a developing Beltline. Imagine if you took Uptown and spread it out into a long linear line, that is sort of what our Beltline is becoming. It has a ways to go.

While both cities have similar sunbelt build deisgns, what Dallas (and Houston) has a whole lot more than Atlanta are the in between areas in a normal neighborhood. This is also why Atlanta is known for having such an extensive tree canopy.
I have noticed what you say looking at a map. Thanks for the insight.

Uptown Dallas really isn't separate from downtown. It is the new downtown. Ironically, the growth in the old downtown Dallas area today is resulting from growth pouring out from Uptown. The Crescent, developed by Caroline Rose Hunt, is fast becoming the most primr center of the universe in these parts.
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Old 12-31-2016, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
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Dallas is more dense (city and metro) and part of that is sticking with a grid system for much of the metro area. Northern Dallas and the Highland Park area maintains a strong grid system while comparable areas of western Buckhead (high wealth residential SFH areas) are not dense at all and roads breakdown into seemingly random directions.
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Old 12-31-2016, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,618 posts, read 5,879,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas retail updater View Post
I have noticed what you say looking at a map. Thanks for the insight.

Uptown Dallas really isn't separate from downtown. It is the new downtown. Ironically, the growth in the old downtown Dallas area today is resulting from growth pouring out from Uptown. The Crescent, developed by Caroline Rose Hunt, is fast becoming the most primr center of the universe in these parts.
My friend lives fairly close to there in a place off Thomas. It's only a 5 minute walk to her office in Downtown. It seems like uptown Dallas has a much better relationship with downtown (at least the northern parts) compared to midtown and downtown Atlanta. But I think uptown Dallas loses the "city feel" quicker than Atlanta when headed north and that's due to how linear PeachtreeStreet keeps the urban core. I went out with some friends in the area of McKinney and Routh and while it's still in town, we were definitely out of the more urban core. On the flip side that part of uptown held its density for greater distances whereas midtown Atlanta to me drops off quick. I also didn't see any real parallels to the more urban parts of Buckhead. Uptown Dallas seemed more like midtown and Buckhead rolled into one with the tall buildings, nightlife and the wealth.
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Old 12-31-2016, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Lake Spivey, Georgia
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The old Downtown Rich's was NOT a dump AND was NOT on Peachtree Street. It was at 45 Broad Street just across Alabama Street from the Five Points MARTA station (the famous Rich's Atlanta clock is still at the corner of Broad and Alabama on what is now the Sam Nunn Federal Center). The old Downtown Rich's was huge and grand (although it did lack the main floor height and festoon crystal chandeliers of the old downtown Davison's / Macy's with its mezzanine overlooking the cosmetics, shoes, and accessories department). The old Rich's downtown store actually had two buildings (Store for Home and Store for Fashion) joined by the "Crystal Bridge" on floors two through five. This "Crystal Bridge" is where the "Rich's Great Tree" was lit from 1947 until 1990. This Atlanta tradition had a brief stint at Underground Atlanta (a few blocks away) until it was permanently relocated further uptown to Rich's new flagship at Lenox Square where Macy's now lights a hideous cone (instead of a massive 60 foot Georgia white pine like Rich's did) atop their store which actually IS on Peachtree, now. As far as the Downtown Rich's being a "dump" I disagree. The main floors of the store for fashion and the store for home were actually quite decorative with inlaid marble and columns. The upper floors, except for their extensive, elaborate furniture displays, were more understated, but that was also the case with the Davison's/ Macy's over at 180 Peachtree that the earlier poster mentioned and other downtown flagships I have been to around the country. When the downtown store closed and Rich's Lenox was designated their flagship, that store was expanded and really carried a lot of upscale merchandise with a "Better' and "Bridge" assortment similar to the Bloomingdale's that is at Lenox Square now. Rich's suburban stores did continue to have more moderate merchandise. The Davison's/ Macy's store at Lenox Square and in the suburbs were decidedly more moderate (more like a Penny's with a small Polo department kind of like the suburban/ non Phipps Plaza Belks now) Even in the same suburban mall around Atlanta. Rich's was ALWAYS more upscale. When Federated decided to "Macy-fy" the planet, they converted the Macy's at Lenox into a Bloomingdale's and moderated the selection at the former Rich's flagship, now Macy's by getting rid of the Regency Shops (Bridge sportswear) and reintroducing moderate sportswear that had previously only been sold at their suburban outlets. Muse's, J. P. Allen, and Regenstein's were more like upscale, multi-floor clothing stores stores. J. P. Allen and Regenstein's were upscale women's boutiques that included shoes, cosmetics, accessories, and even wedding dresses! Muse's was really a men's suit shop that also had an extensive collection of women's career wear. (think Brooks Brothers) I KNOW I have "waxed poetically", but as a native Atlantan, I felt I had to set the record straight. Peachtree is THE main thoroughfare of our city and our lives.
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Old 12-31-2016, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,574 posts, read 10,686,347 times
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Clayton,

Thank you for adding information to the discussion as I was keeping parts short and relevant.

Many small points.... for the scale of the discussion in reviewing Preston vs. Peacthree for retail.... I think what was said needed to be said. That corner of the 1924 building was 1 small, narrow block off of Peacthree. They built it there to build a larger building.

However, Rich's was actually founded on Whitehall/Peacthree St and grew as a small business and first developed into a department store on that street. It wasn't until 1924 it move just a block down where it cold buy more land.

The 1906 building was on Peacthree St. where it really developed into a small department store and not just a small shop. In fact, you can still see they retained the name on the canopies of the building on the back entrance of the L shaped building on MLK https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7516...7i13312!8i6656 and on the canopy of the entrance on Peacthree St. https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7523...7i13312!8i6656

So while you are correct and I thank you for mentioning it, to me Rich's was still right at Peacthree and was trying to stay in that area when they originally expanded.

The only oddity to the story is back then that stretch of Peacthree St was named Whitehall St, since it went further south. They renamed it to Peachtree St to carry the more prestigious Peacthree name into the southern parts of downtown. Originally it only went north. It also happened to be on the very block that Whitehall St turned into Peacthree St.

So the roots of Macy's and Peacthree St go back very deep and it is very relevant to the discussion. Of course we could also call it the Whitehall St or the 1 short block away on Broad St. as important too.


This is the streetview :https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sa...!4d-84.3941415
You can see the 1924 store to the right 1 block away, the original store is to the left and half a block down.

Of course this stretch of Downtown overall has seen better times.


The 1927 Davison's building had the benefit of being modeled after the Macy's flag ship store in New York. They had merged Macy's and Davisons just 2 years before the new Atlanta store was built.
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