The Worst of Atlanta Urbanism (Alpharetta, Buckhead: violent crime, school, live in)

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by Forhall

Agree times 1000. But you can't point that out here or people freak out. They don't seem to comprehend that unfortunately not everyone is "entitled" to be a part of a revitalized downtown. Those are the people who have been actively doing everything they can to hold downtown back for decades - the thugs mugging people and breaking into cars. They have to be pushed out before we can have anything nice there. They don't deserve to be part of whatever we replace it with, as it's their fault the area is unsafe now.

I'm not going to touch the whole "entitled" and "deserve" thing, but I've not seen anyone here say that downtown is just fine the way it is with all of its issues. However, downtown didn't get that way overnight and it won't be fixed overnight (at least not without some drastic unintended consequences). In the absence of an organic transformation of downtown over time--which is optimal--some things will be lost that give a downtown its distinct flavor and charm.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Yes, but people don't have issues when it's white penises.

Sez who? Ask the folks in Candler Park, Midtown or Virginia Highland. You probably wouldn't want to try it at Ponce City Market or Krog street either.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by oldschoolChevy

I used to think different but in recent years I've come to realization (or maybe hope) that no truly straight up racist white person would move to ITP ATL. There are too many of us here.

They probably wouldn't move here, but some of the older crowd (in fairness a very small minority) that's lived in Buckhead/Druid Hills/Sandy Springs for 40+ years may still harbor prejudices.

[Forhall]

Originally Posted by Gulch

They probably wouldn't move here, but some of the older crowd (in fairness a very small minority) that's lived in Buckhead/Druid Hills/Sandy Springs for 40+ years may still harbor prejudices.

Everyone harbors some prejudices to a degree. It's fallacy for people to act like they are completely open minded. The most liberal white woman in Atlanta will still hide her purse or pull out a cell phone when crossing paths with a group of young black men with their pants down to their knees late at night. Just like parents subconsciously choose a young female babysitter over a middle aged white men, due to statistics in that demographic. It's just how the world works - we are constantly assessing risk, and statistics show what dangers are more likely in certain neighborhoods, groups, etc. Many minorities or LGBT people choose not to go out to rural, redneck areas because they assume there is a higher chance of racism or even a hate crime among rural, uneducated white people - that's a form of bias too. Likewise many people choose to avoid certain neighborhoods in the city due to a risk of increased crime (verified by crime statistics), usually high minority areas. In both cases, the person with bias may be wrong, and would likely survive, but it's still a "risk" and people have different risk tolerance levels.

I think the problem is when people are too quick to label everything as racism. It's not racism if someone says "Hey, I don't want to drive through southwest Atlanta late at night." They aren't thinking "I hate African Americans" they are thinking "this area is high crime and I don't want to be shot." Racism is actively hating certain races for no other reason than the color of their skin.

[Caleb Longstreet]

Originally Posted by Forhall

Agree times 1000. But you can't point that out here or people freak out. They don't seem to comprehend that unfortunately not everyone is "entitled" to be a part of a revitalized downtown. Those are the people who have been actively doing everything they can to hold downtown back for decades - the thugs mugging people and breaking into cars. They have to be pushed out before we can have anything nice there. They don't deserve to be part of whatever we replace it with, as it's their fault the area is unsafe now.

The green "turtle" parking deck is a nutha' shining example of all that is wrong...but, don't take my word for it, ask the women who walk to the guvmint' buildings from there, those that park under 2 Peachtree, and those that walk from the Turtle Deck.....the cops will tell you there are usually 30-40 folks with the calendar's clear between now and the rapture casing the deck. Do NOT leave ANYTHING of ANY value in plain sight or faster than you can say, smash n' grab, it's gone....


Start at Marietta Street, get rid of ALL the folks with messages they insist everyone listen to, daily, at the top of their lungs, and start dropping buildings just south of 5 Pts to all places South except newly built guvmint' buildings and start cleaning it up....do that, and who knows, it might start to rival revitalization tourists would pay to see, smell, eat, and enjoy.


After all, they GOT money....

[ATLTJL]

I still fail to see how a pedestrian bridge wouldn't be a safety victory for everyone involved.

[Othello Is Here]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Duluth does not have the stigma issues that plaque UA and Five Points area. WRS wants to attract top name tenants and customers, but many people are afraid of that area due to the loitering and perceived crime issues.

When Undergrond was redeveloped in the 1990's,there was a Gap,Victoria Secrets,Sam Goody and several other national retailers.There was NO LOITERING.
Those stores left and that when the problem started

If they redevelop the area with stores and such that dont cater to people who currently Loiter in the areas,there will be no LOITERING.
I think its nonsense to think the only way to handle this is to give away rights of public domain to private entities.
The mindset is not gonna magically change because of who owns a street.

[MikeHonchoATL]

#1. The Streetcar. $100 million spent for hundreds of riders per day.

[Vacanegro]

Originally Posted by Othello Is Here

When Undergrond was redeveloped in the 1990's,there was a Gap,Victoria Secrets,Sam Goody and several other national retailers.There was NO LOITERING.
Those stores left and that when the problem started

If they redevelop the area with stores and such that dont cater to people who currently Loiter in the areas,there will be no LOITERING.
I think its nonsense to think the only way to handle this is to give away rights of public domain to private entities.
The mindset is not gonna magically change because of who owns a street.

The problem with downtown development has been the same since the 1970s - there is not enough affluent (spending) consumers down there to support the local (aspirational) businesses and most folks are not going to commute to downtown from the Exurbs for a night out, especially now that there are numerous trendy areas in the areas immediately surrounding downtown.

Note I went to Underground in the 70s before it closed for it's first remodeling. There was one nightclub that remained open for a long time after the other businesses left (don't remember the name) - the club and surrounding streets were full of drug abusers, Pimps, Prostitutes and hard-core partiers. Funny that more than 35 years later the issue(s) remain very similar.

[Othello Is Here]

Originally Posted by Forhall

Agree times 1000. But you can't point that out here or people freak out. They don't seem to comprehend that unfortunately not everyone is "entitled" to be a part of a revitalized downtown. Those are the people who have been actively doing everything they can to hold downtown back for decades - the thugs mugging people and breaking into cars. They have to be pushed out before we can have anything nice there. They don't deserve to be part of whatever we replace it with, as it's their fault the area is unsafe now.

WHO on here is saying that "Thugs" should be allowed to stay?No that is YOUR narrative.All I see is people advocating for affordable amenities. Not a Family Dollar but more like Aldi or Target.
Not Upscale like everything seems to go.The cities gets way to expensive as everything is "LUXURY" and not practical.
The majority pf Americans and Atlanta's dont live a luxury lifestyle.I go to Ponce City Market only to eat a the cheaper places unless its a special night with friends or date.
In the suburbs they dont redevelop places that are not feasible for the majority.More like Old Navy,F21,etc

where hanging on in Krog Street Market to buy a $10 chocolate bar or a $7 Ice Cream float at Jenni;s rather than a regular bakery or a Bruester's would be just fine for most.
When Underground was first redeveloped with Gap and all those stores you find anywhere,there was not a problem with loitering as it was a place everybody went.Not just snobby people wanting to feel special shopping in boutique style shops.
The biggest problem was that there was no students or people living downtown like there are today.

Another example would be Edgwood Ave.You dont see the amount of homeless and vagrants you used to see hanging around that gas station you used to before it changed with all the night clubs and streetcars.