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Old 03-04-2008, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Dallas
1,365 posts, read 2,596,556 times
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These superimpositions are interesting to me. I've not been to Atlanta yet so I have no comparison to go off of. It looks to me that DFW is set up in more of a grid system where the Atlanta metro looks a lil more random in the placing of the roads and highways. It seems to me that this coupled with a rapidly growing metro can cause some traffic. Any insight from natives?
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:12 PM
 
989 posts, read 1,735,581 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
Houstons' map really points out to me just how much traffic could be relieved in Atlanta by an outer loop. If Atlanta had an outer loop like Houston's, South bound thru traffic (especially truck traffic) on I-75 could jump off at Acworth and rejoin I-75 off the beltway at Mc Donough. Think how much that could reduce southbound rush hour traffic through Cobb county (and I-285 traffic) for instance.
I do not believe an outerloop will work. 285 was designed to be an outerloop until suburnanites decided to build subdivisions off of the exits.(sorryfor the vent, back to objectivity) The problem with 285 traffic is where they connect with 75/85 and I-20 and those are commuters who are enter/leaving the city. Also, there is a money issue, who's going to pay for another interstate? The federal gov't will not issue Atlanta anymore money to build roads and it's cheaper to build rails than highways, but it's a political issue and all political issues are due to people issues.
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 25,968,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by portyhead24 View Post
These superimpositions are interesting to me. I've not been to Atlanta yet so I have no comparison to go off of. It looks to me that DFW is set up in more of a grid system where the Atlanta metro looks a lil more random in the placing of the roads and highways.
The Atlanta road system seems to have grown organically.

I haven't taken the time to create a map of Atlanta versus the Twin Cities, but I'm sure that would also show a far more grid-like road network.

Quote:
It seems to me that this coupled with a rapidly growing metro can cause some traffic. Any insight from natives?
It causes some traffic. Yes.
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Old 03-04-2008, 07:12 PM
 
1,088 posts, read 6,323,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
Houstons' map really points out to me just how much traffic could be relieved in Atlanta by an outer loop. If Atlanta had an outer loop like Houston's, South bound thru traffic (especially truck traffic) on I-75 could jump off at Acworth and rejoin I-75 off the beltway at Mc Donough. Think how much that could reduce southbound rush hour traffic through Cobb county (and I-285 traffic) for instance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemanarmy View Post
I do not believe an outerloop will work. 285 was designed to be an outerloop until suburnanites decided to build subdivisions off of the exits.(sorryfor the vent, back to objectivity) The problem with 285 traffic is where they connect with 75/85 and I-20 and those are commuters who are enter/leaving the city. Also, there is a money issue, who's going to pay for another interstate? The federal gov't will not issue Atlanta anymore money to build roads and it's cheaper to build rails than highways, but it's a political issue and all political issues are due to people issues.
I would be in favor of an outer loop if it only had exits at the Interstates, I-75, I-85 and I-20. Build it with interchanges throughout and it would be just as congested as 285 in 5 to 10 years.
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Old 03-04-2008, 09:21 PM
 
Location: West Cobb County, GA (Atlanta metro)
9,191 posts, read 33,758,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
A present...

Houston's dual beltways makes metro Atlanta look pretty small (according to Wikipedia, metro Houston is 2,000 sq mi larger). Dallas's grid underlies the fact that Atlanta is in need of suburban rail with good transit parking.
Good maps - thanks.
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:05 PM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
3,615 posts, read 7,741,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by portyhead24 View Post
These superimpositions are interesting to me. I've not been to Atlanta yet so I have no comparison to go off of. It looks to me that DFW is set up in more of a grid system where the Atlanta metro looks a lil more random in the placing of the roads and highways. It seems to me that this coupled with a rapidly growing metro can cause some traffic. Any insight from natives?
Yes, that is true -- though there is a little method to the apparent madness and these are still high volume roads. Additionally, the bends in the road and avenues mask industrial areas in the distance and make stretches of the roads seem more scenic and private because you can't see the factory 2 miles down the road.

A lot of these roads are large arteries that circles around city centers, like mini beltways of 2-3 lane avenues. The other avenues connect city and village centers. The seeming mish-mash of roads are high-volume, but unlike a grid system is that commuters may be unwilling to get off a main avenue to try their luck on roads they are less familiar with. It almost creates a comic situation of main thoroughfares being backed up which other through streets running parallel are smooth sailing.

For roads with smooth turns, it may seem you are travelling one direction when you have almost completely turned around so it pays to have a compass if you're new here. Examples are E-W connector in Cobb County, Camp Creek Parkway, Cumberland Blvd in Cobb County, Lenox Rd in Buckhead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
Houstons' map really points out to me just how much traffic could be relieved in Atlanta by an outer loop. If Atlanta had an outer loop like Houston's, South bound thru traffic (especially truck traffic) on I-75 could jump off at Acworth and rejoin I-75 off the beltway at Mc Donough. Think how much that could reduce southbound rush hour traffic through Cobb county (and I-285 traffic) for instance.
There's 2 downsides to building the Northern Arc (1) It will take money from the coffers that could go towards rail (2) If not done right with expensive state land purchases near exits to prevent development, it can cause sprawl once again. I think infrastructure work should be done mainly on the inner metro. Right now, we need to improve the Northern section of 285 with a pair of truck/toll lanes, and raised BRT or LRT lines along with extending some of the MARTA passenger rail spurs to connect to future Cobb, and Gwinnett county transit lines. Not extending MARTA into these counties, but instead connecting them to rail the counties will build, with a fare-sharing program set up.

Now, if the Northern Arc were made a toll road and trucks were blocked from 285, we may be able to afford it much sooner. However, unless it's done by a private entity, it'll still take money away from rail in the short term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxman777 View Post
I would be in favor of an outer loop if it only had exits at the Interstates, I-75, I-85 and I-20. Build it with interchanges throughout and it would be just as congested as 285 in 5 to 10 years.
I tend to think they'll need I-585, 400, and I-985 as well to be able to argue against any other interchanges. If any other industrial towns or towns wishing for industry request interchanges, then the state should probably build interchanges where no roads exist outside of those towns, and ONLY connect to a designated industrial park, to prevent those interchanges to be abused by developers. I disagree with going all the way to I-20 in the first iteration. Going all the way to I-20 on each end would have to make it twice as long (or more) and would have to extend almost all the way to the Alabama border on the Western side and would have to be even longer on the Eastern side. I'll have to look at freight traffic for I-20 at some point to see if there's really a case for a Northern arc all the way to I-20. In the meantime, it may make sense to improve 411 from near Cartersville to Rome and 27 all the way down to almost I-85 on the South side, then 16 across from 85 to 75 on the South side.

It also begs to question whether a beltway made of rail can't be built and have them relay their freight through the rail line and have someone pick up on the other end.

Last edited by netdragon; 03-04-2008 at 10:45 PM..
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:47 PM
 
245 posts, read 649,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by portyhead24 View Post
It looks to me that DFW is set up in more of a grid system where the Atlanta metro looks a lil more random in the placing of the roads and highways.
It's this lack of a grid system I think causes a lot of delays... partially from suburban development patterns, but don't discount the terrain. It's more difficult to create a grid in many areas around here than it is somewhere completely flat. There's a lot to be said for a grid in terms of timing traffic lights, etc. I can catch almost every single light on the major arterials in my area because nothing is straight.

But also we have very, very poor arterials compared to other areas I've lived. For example, look at all the folks who live in Acworth & Woodstock and those areas and work along the 400 corridor... they pretty much have 92 and that's it. Everything else is two-lane. Plenty more examples like that.
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:41 PM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
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Compared to CT, the road system is very good in metro Atlanta. However, CT also has urban grids in the larger towns. In smaller towns, it not only has the arterial system like Atlanta but generally the roads aren't built for the same type of volume. Almost everyone uses the highways in CT as their primary mode of travel. There's some parts of the rural CT you can't travel unless you get on a highway unless you drive 2 towns out of the way. :-)

However, CT concentrates density in small areas and the rest is suburban or rural (rural in the sense of being like Dallas or Powder Springs). With the way metro Atlanta is growing throughout, the road system just isn't going to suffice. Additionally, it appears it's a cat and mouse between road improvements attracting more developers. I think rail is win-win because it still attracts developers, but they are developments designed around rail.
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 25,968,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
For roads with smooth turns, it may seem you are travelling one direction when you have almost completely turned around so it pays to have a compass if you're new here. Examples are E-W connector in Cobb County, Camp Creek Parkway, Cumberland Blvd in Cobb County, Lenox Rd in Buckhead.
Hehehehe. Yeah, ya gotta be careful. When my wife and I first moved down here we drove due west on the E/W Connector one evening after dark to see where it would take us, but we didn't really pay attention to the road name changes, and we finally figured something was up when we ended up crossing I-75 way north of Marietta. At that point we were almost going east!
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:37 AM
 
Location: ATL
4,688 posts, read 7,981,008 times
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Great map
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