Gwinnett loses another HQ because of MARTA (Atlanta, Lawrenceville: apartment, leases)

[primaltech]

They should just take the entire Gwinnett Place area, bulldoze that sad post-apocalyptic wasteland of a mall, as well as all the depressing generic chain crap and all the car dealerships around it, then build straight lined grid streets criss crossing everywhere for a few miles, then zone the entire CID area for maximum human scale density, like a new Downtown/Midtown Atlanta. Unlimited tower heights, the works. Zero surface parking lots allowed (which even Atlanta hasn't reached yet.) Nothing but complete streets everywhere. No setbacks, everything built right up on the street. No right hand turn lanes. Wide sidewalks. Special rules about wrapping parking decks, to make them not look like parking decks, and at least have retail at their base.

Office towers, apartments, condos, hotels, retail, parks, everything. And maybe even expand the special zone further out than that, gradually transitioning the density level. But just make it so that you can live in Gwinnett and walk to work (and everything else in your life). While also giving all the people out in the subdivisions, a shorter commute, to a closer job center area (and also a non-chain dining and retail and culture and nightlife scene.)

Build a new city, basically. I guess that's easier said than done. But why not just go for it? Gwinnett Place is a dump. A centrally located dump.

And obviously, then MARTA would be an absolute necessity. But they could start that transformation even before they have MARTA.

[ATLTJL]

I think it's a great idea.

The only problem is that for better or worse, Pleasant Hill is a major travel artery. You can do all that stuff, but you have to give people some sort of way to get in and out of the area.

I believe the county already granted unlimited building heights, but so far, nobody wants to take advantage of it. Apparently, a lot of the strip centers do a lot of volume and are pretty successful, so getting the owners to agree to have them bulldozed might be tricky.

The thing about the Gwinnett Place area is that it is still highly utilitarian. It has pretty much every store you could ever need right there. In some ways, the area is being held back by some of the success that it is still enjoying.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I think it's a great idea.

The only problem is that for better or worse, Pleasant Hill is a major travel artery. You can do all that stuff, but you have to give people some sort of way to get in and out of the area.

I believe the county already granted unlimited building heights, but so far, nobody wants to take advantage of it. Apparently, a lot of the strip centers do a lot of volume and are pretty successful, so getting the owners to agree to have them bulldozed might be tricky.

The thing about the Gwinnett Place area is that it is still highly utilitarian. It has pretty much every store you could ever need right there. In some ways, the area is being held back by some of the success that it is still enjoying.

Heavy rail backbone, with Bus Rapid Transit and a robust local bus system would do well.

See, now, I like Primal's idea. The property owners don't even have to give up their land, since they would be able to control whatever buildings replaced the old and filled in the grid.

Use the promise of MARTA stations to anchor initial developments, and then add more in as the stations come online.

[ATLTJL]

Heavy rail backbone, with Bus Rapid Transit and a robust local bus system would do well.

That would work in places like midtown, but a development like what you are talking about would not work without support from people in Duluth, Lawrenceville, Snellville, Johns Creek, etc....and these people would have to drive there. So I think you have to be pretty smart about routing automobile traffic through or around a development like this. Maybe they could turn Old Norcross Road into an entrance/exit onto I-85.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by atltechdude

I do think support for transit is building in Gwinnett, but I'm not sure it's quite there yet.

I agree that support seems to be building for improved transit in Gwinnett County.

Though with the changing demographics in the county and with racial and ethnic minorities now making up over 60% of the county's population, the situation seems to be increasingly fluid in regards to support growing for transit in Gwinnett County.

(...Non-Hispanic whites made up only 39.6% of Gwinnett County's population as of 2015, after making up as much as 96% of Gwinnett County's population in 1980.)

I suspect that the support potentially may already be there for improved transit in Gwinnett, I just think that transit supporters need to organize to turnout the vote in support of investments in improved transit, like a probable countywide MARTA expansion referendum during the 2020 presidential election.

Originally Posted by arjay57

Gwinnett would probably have gotten big if they'd had MARTA.

With a population of just under 900,000 inhabitants as of 2015, Gwinnett's population grew very large and got big (and continues to grow very large) without MARTA.

The question for a heavily-populated county like Gwinnett is can the county remain economically competitive at the highest levels without the presence of robust high-capacity rail transit service in an era where access to robust high-capacity rail transit service seems to be an increasing necessity to remain at the highest levels of economic competitiveness in a very large major metropolitan region like Atlanta.

In the current economic environment where major businesses and corporations increasingly seem to be desiring to be near high-capacity transit lines, it appears that a county like Gwinnett potentially could be at increasing risk of losing its legendary quality-of-life rankings of the past four decades or so if the county does not gain access to robust high-capacity transit operations (preferably high-capacity RAIL transit) in the not-too-distant future.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

I agree that support seems to be building for improved transit in Gwinnett County.

Though with the changing demographics in the county and with racial and ethnic minorities now making up over 60% of the county's population, the situation seems to be increasingly fluid in regards to support growing for transit in Gwinnett County.

(...Non-Hispanic whites made up only 39.6% of Gwinnett County's population as of 2015, after making up as much as 96% of Gwinnett County's population in 1980.)

I suspect that the support potentially may already be there for improved transit in Gwinnett, I just think that transit supporters need to organize to turnout the vote in support of investments in improved transit, like a probable countywide MARTA expansion referendum during the 2020 presidential election.

Agreed, that is the earliest realistic date for a MARTA vote since minority turnout is always a good deal higher in presidential years. It would not make sense to try in a non-presidential year.

[ATLTJL]

I personally think that you may be underestimating the number of white people in Gwinnett county who are sick of sitting in traffic and want to attract quality employers and would therefore vote for MARTA.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I personally think that you may be underestimating the number of white people in Gwinnett county who are sick of sitting in traffic and want to attract quality employers and would therefore vote for MARTA.

You're underestimating the amount of white people who don't want transit because they're afraid Black Atlantans will take rail to their subdivisions and burglarize them.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

That would work in places like midtown, but a development like what you are talking about would not work without support from people in Duluth, Lawrenceville, Snellville, Johns Creek, etc....and these people would have to drive there. So I think you have to be pretty smart about routing automobile traffic through or around a development like this. Maybe they could turn Old Norcross Road into an entrance/exit onto I-85.

So, run the BRT routes out to those places.



Like I said, Heavy rail back-bone, with commuter rail as well, and a healthy layer of BRT (and ART and frequent buses, and local buses, and community circulators, and express buses, etc.).

[ATLTJL]

It wouldn't work well in a suburban environment like Gwinnett because there are so many residential subdivisions that were never designed for bus traffic, I don't even know if the buses could get down the streets or turn around in the cul de sacs. Not to mention the gated communities.