Residents push back against widening of Hwy 20 to six lanes in Cherokee and Forsyth counties (Atlanta: fit in, construction)

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I am no particular fan of sprawl but we have to acknowledge that people love elbow room. I know a number of people who have left Cobb and Henry and Gwinnett because they felt packed in like sardines.

That's the thing those country aren't even that dense that why I compare ATL sprawl to DFW sprawl in DFW they love space and "elbow room" is know for sprawl too.

But DFW, Houston, and etc still to have a smaller urbanize area while still being more populated. The reason isn't space or elbow room there more than enough in the inner counties

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

But here is the problem with that sentiment: folks want to live in Cherokee and Forsyth Counties and not inside of the perimeter, Cobb, Dekalb, Clayton, Gwinnett or Fulton. And, we cannot dictate where folks can and cannot live, unless, of course, they want to move to a national park or Area 51.

And the promblem with this its area with bad Infustructure for growth.

Again who need road improvement again? A lot of which isn't even possible? It's like a child who dirty his room than demand the mother to clean up the mess made.

It's the culture of developers in Georgia they are by far more pro sprawl no care given about infustucture than other sunbelt cities.

I think grids serve as a sprawl barrier in other sunbelt cities developers don't go to far beyond the grid. But Metro Atlanta not a grid Turn at Atlanta to the Wild West with develop. There no such thing as it doesn't make sense cause much of metro Atlanta road network already doesn't make sense. As a result Atlanta sprawls more than DFW and etc.

[arjay57]

If they keep Cherokee and Forsyth fairly low density it seems like they will be fine. The question is does the county have the guts to do that?

[DJDeadParrot]

Seems like these improvements to this road are more than just about local development, and keeping up with local growth. This is also about a transportation corridor that gets used, some would say overused, as an alternative to 285.

[Saintmarks]

Almost every arterial road here in the north Dallas burbs into Collin county is 6 lanes. If anyone in Atlanta is wondering why Dallas is outgaining Atlanta look at this outdated fear of decent roads to handle the growth. When the major connector between two 200k plus counties can't even be 6 lanes, something is goofy. They aren't elbow room areas anymore, they are completely suburban and the roads should reflect that.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

Almost every arterial road here in the north Dallas burbs into Collin county is 6 lanes. If anyone in Atlanta is wondering why Dallas is outgaining Atlanta look at this outdated fear of decent roads to handle the growth. When the major connector between two 200k plus counties can't even be 6 lanes, something is goofy. They aren't elbow room areas anymore, they are completely suburban and the roads should reflect that.

Though there no longer seems to be a consensus that Dallas is outgaining Atlanta (at least economically) like was the case earlier in the decade when Dallas seemed to have come through the Great Recession in at least slightly better shape than Atlanta (...the entertainment industry in particular has exploded in Atlanta during the decade of the 2010's to levels that were previously thought to be unattainable as Georgia is expected by many to pass New York within the next year or so to become the 2nd-largest center of television and film production on the planet behind only industry-leader California all while Atlanta has remained an extremely-dominant force within the music production industry)....That is an excellent point about there seeming to continue to be a fear of expanding existing roads and the road network in general to handle the continuing growth in many parts of the Atlanta region like along the stretch of Georgia Highway 20 in question through Forsyth and Cherokee counties.

I guess that one could say that this stretch of GA 20 that is being targeted by the Georgia Department of Transportation for widening to up to six-plus lanes between Cumming and Canton compares somewhat favorably to the stretch of U.S. Highway 380, an east-west highway north of Dallas in Collin and Denton counties that runs between McKinney and Denton.

Though it should probably be noted that the road is about 9 miles closer to Dallas than GA 20 is to Atlanta (US 380 is about 31 miles north of Downtown Dallas while GA 20 is about 40-45 miles north of Downtown Atlanta because Atlanta spreads out over a larger area than Dallas because of the lower-density development and more hilly and heavily-wooded terrain in Atlanta), US 380, which serves a similar capacity as GA 20 as an east-west road that runs through a fast-growing outlying area that is quickly transitioning from rural to outer-suburban, is in the process of being widened from a five-lane highway with a continuous center-turn lane to a divided highway with six-plus lanes between McKinney and Denton.

One major challenge with widening GA 20 to as many as six-plus lanes is that (along with the locals seeming to be highly-resistant to the idea of the road being expanded to as many as six lanes) much of the existing commercial/light industrial development along the road (which there is more of than many who are unfamiliar with the area might expect there to be) seems to be located too close to the road for there to not be more commercial property displacements than might be acceptable to both the public and the local governments of Forsyth and Cherokee counties who collect much property tax revenue from those commercial/light industrial businesses along GA 20.

It is because of this that I think that the road will eventually be expanded in some way shape or form, but probably not into the six-plus lane divided highway that GDOT is currently proposing. If anything the road will likely be widened to a three or five-plus lane highway with a continuous center-turn lane in many segments.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Folks moved out there to get some elbow room and now it's being threatened. You can't blame them pushing back.

for once i agree with you about elbow room. this is completely unnecessary and is only going to push demand for land development in that area— and we all know that's the only thing behind this project. traffic, my ass.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I say go ahead and let Cherokee become the new Cobb, let Cobb become the new Sandy Springs, Sandy Springs become the new Atlanta, and Atlanta become the new Boston or something.

I'm fine with the outward sprawl as long as it's equally balanced by inward infill.

while we're at it let's let pickens become the new cobb and white county become the new north fulton. let's level tar whole f**king piedmont with asphalt. destroy our own ecosystem just so we can have a big atlanta boner we can show to the world and prove we're "world class".

in portland, they have an urban growth boundary. we need to establish one here. i don't have any problem with someone building a homestead outside of the boundary, but we have got to start realizing that land does not belong to us, or the government. it belongs to God and nature, and if we don't stop pillaging the environment and squatting on all of the land, we're going to get an eviction notice we can't ignore.

[fourthwarden]

Daily reminder that roads beget cars and yadda yadda yadda.


Here's an idea. If the road MUST be built / expanded, then why not make it a toll road? Better yet, make it a toll road with transit only lanes down the middle. Tolls would go to paying for the long-term upkeep of the road, as well as to run the transit along the same corridor.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

Almost every arterial road here in the north Dallas burbs into Collin county is 6 lanes. If anyone in Atlanta is wondering why Dallas is outgaining Atlanta look at this outdated fear of decent roads to handle the growth. When the major connector between two 200k plus counties can't even be 6 lanes, something is goofy. They aren't elbow room areas anymore, they are completely suburban and the roads should reflect that.

Contradiction Looking to just build roads for growth which is sprawl is a out date view. DFW can get away with it more because it's a grid.

DFW and Houston are in different situations there grid makes them denser,


But is this collin county Texas notice the grid the arterial roads which you speak are in a larger grid. Even if you don't notice it's there it's actually there. As a mention DFW, Houston, LA and Phoenix sprawl stay largely in the grid which serves some what as an barrier to sprawl. You can clearly see the Grid and develop, then clearly see the rual undeveloped area. Development is not leap frogging.







DFW can build more roads cause

1 there open space to build them, Atlanta sprawl ironically is in the way of building roads. Because there no grid, there no rules which is causing development to leap frog. Because of this DFW have area to set side for roads. Trying to build roads in Atlanta is like trying run full speed through a crowd.


2. Roads encourage more sprawl in DFW this less of an issues because developers mostly stay limited to the grid. More roads in Atlanta would accelerate the problem.

If Atlanta and DFW were kids........ And Atlanta was very hyper and DFW more self control "grided" why would give Atlanta exurban roads "sugar"


So looking at Forsyth county notice everything is every where. It's important to note that Cherokee and Forsyth counties are further out past than Collin development. So all of this is area is equal to where Collin County is undeveloped.

Forsyth county


mckinney tx is equal to alpharetta Georgia. Not cumming georgia.

Because only the bottom end and central part of Collin country TX is develop Collin Country TX is egual to North Fulton............


This map is actually base on 2000's numbers, I wanted to just give a visual. 2010 numbers are worst.

Atlanta urban urbanized area is 4,515,419 in 2,645.4 sq mi, with a density 1,706.9 sq mi

DFW urban urbanized area is 5,121,892 in 1,779.1 sq mi with a density 2,878.9 sq mi.

With DFW more populated Atlanta shouldn't be over 900 sq mi larger.

So when you say "They aren't elbow room areas anymore, they are completely suburban and the roads should reflect that."...................

Mean while The DFW area equal Cherokee and Forsyth counties is rural and undeveloped.

Cherokee and Forsyth counties are far out excurban counties. They are past the theshold of sprawl to a point that, The conservatives in Cherokee and Forsyth who want to keep there "elbow room" up there is actually in agreement with the progressives who wants sprawl to slow down.

So unlike DFW Metro Atlanta has to make up some where for the lack of grid to control sprawl.