Let's Leave I-85 Closed (Atlanta, Boston: fit in, move, train)

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by roadtrip75

Atlanta wouldn't exist without the suburbs. Most of the people who make Atlanta successful live in the suburbs. Atlanta could be eliminated and the burbs would keep on thriving.

Let me guess, you're a Brightline NIMBY.

And this is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen posted in a long time.

[roadtrip75]

Originally Posted by jsvh

No Atlanta (and most cities) can and did exist without suburbs.

And then the people that made Atlanta tick moved to the suburbs.

[bryantm3]

Need4Camaro, there are plenty of cities that don't have unchecked development sprawling across the forest. I agree that the problems were moved elsewhere, but only because we were unwilling to challenge the *type* of development that was occurring-- GA politicians saw dollar signs in their eyes and let developers have their way with us. Nobody's neighborhood or serene forest has to get paved over if people get their head out of their butts and start being smart about development.

Re: the original topic, has anyone actually gotten out of their cars and checked out all the granite outcroppings, Clear Creek and the surrounding area? If the new I-85 hadn't been built, it would have made for a really amazing public park.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by roadtrip75

And then the people that made Atlanta tick moved to the suburbs.

No, they didn't.

[bryantm3]

also y'all are tripping about the suburbs still thriving even if Atlanta was eliminated. Name me a major metro area composed of suburbs. Or without a rail hub. Or an airport. You don't have suburbs without a city. I've lived in Alpharetta for a long time- it's been here since the 1800s, but it was most certainly not considered suburb until the last 30 or so years. Believe it or not, there was one time where even Vinings was considered a rural mountain town. Not pissing on the burbs- it's totally possible that Marietta or Decatur could have ended up being the epicenter of this metro had things gone a little differently. But if there hadn't been *any* epicenter, there would have been no metro, and no suburbs. Just a series of charming rural north Georgia towns.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

also y'all are tripping about the suburbs still thriving even if Atlanta was eliminated. Name me a major metro area composed of suburbs. Or without a rail hub. Or an airport. You don't have suburbs without a city. I've lived in Alpharetta for a long time- it's been here since the 1800s, but it was most certainly not considered suburb until the last 30 or so years. Believe it or not, there was one time where even Vinings was considered a rural mountain town. Not pissing on the burbs- it's totally possible that Marietta or Decatur could have ended up being the epicenter of this metro had things gone a little differently. But if there hadn't been *any* epicenter, there would have been no metro, and no suburbs. Just a series of charming rural north Georgia towns.

Lawrenceville was at one point larger than Atlanta, in fact.. at one point several of whats considered todays suburbs were larger than Atlanta.

Lawrenceville has its own Airport, North Dekalb does as well.. If I'm not mistaken I'm pretty sure Kennesaw does too. All three of these cities also have direct rail access.. The thing that made Atlanta explode was several rails hubbed together in that one geographic location now historically known as "Underground Atlanta".. It wasn't that Atlanta services any of those cities in any way..it was that Atlanta was strategically positioned for its explosion in business growth.

Yes.. Lawrenceville probably would not be as large or prosperous as it is today without Atlanta, nor the rest of the suburbs.. but they wouldn't fade into non-existence either..they would still fare pretty well without Atlanta as most of them have been around much longer than Atlanta has.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Lawrenceville was at one point larger than Atlanta, in fact.. at one point several of whats considered todays suburbs were larger than Atlanta.

Lawrenceville has its own Airport, North Dekalb does as well.. If I'm not mistaken I'm pretty sure Kennesaw does too. All three of these cities also have direct rail access.. The thing that made Atlanta explode was several rails hubbed together in that one geographic location now historically known as "Underground Atlanta".. It wasn't that Atlanta services any of those cities in any way..it was that Atlanta was strategically positioned for its explosion in business growth.

Yes.. Lawrenceville probably would not be as large or prosperous as it is today without Atlanta, nor the rest of the suburbs.. but they wouldn't fade into non-existence either..they would still fare pretty well without Atlanta as most of them have been around much longer than Atlanta has.

That is a good point that at least some of the communities that are considered suburbs of Atlanta were at one point larger than Atlanta.

But those suburban communities that predate Atlanta (Lawrenceville being one of them) have not been larger than Atlanta since about the early 1840's at the latest.

By about 1850, despite then only having a population of about just 2,600 inhabitants, Atlanta had already outgrown basically all of those surrounding communities that are now considered to be suburbs of Atlanta.

Those are also great points that Atlanta was strategically positioned for its explosion in business growth and that surrounding and outlying cities and towns like Lawrenceville would not be as large or as prosperous as they are today without the presence of Atlanta.

While we probably can all agree that none of those surrounding and outlying communities probably wouldn't fade into complete non-existence without the presence of Atlanta, it is doubtful that those surrounding and outlying communities would fare pretty well without the presence of Atlanta.

That's because it has been the presence of Atlanta that has driven virtually all of the public and private investment in and virtually all of the millions of relocations into the area of North Georgia that is known as the Atlanta region.

It has been the presence of Atlanta that has driven such massive federal government investments into the area as:

> The Fort MacPherson, Fort Gillem and Dobbins Air Reserve Base military bases...

> The Bell Bomber/Lockheed fighter jet plant (at Dobbins) that ignited and drove the massive explosion of growth in Cobb County and suburban Northwest metro Atlanta...

> The construction of the CDC (Centers of Disease Control and Prevention) on the campus of Emory University...

> The Richard B. Russell Federal Building, the Sam Nunn Atlanta Federal Center and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit in Downtown Atlanta...

> The construction of manmade lakes Allatoona and Lanier north of Atlanta for water supply and economic development purposes...

> The placement of the Federal air mail hub for the Southeastern U.S. at the Atlanta Airport...

> The construction of the Interstate highway system in and around the Atlanta area and North Georgia, including such critically-important area superhighways as I-75, I-85, I-20, I-285, I-575, I-985 and I-675...

> The construction of the MARTA Heavy Rail Transit system.

It was also the City of Atlanta that has made massive investments over the years and decades into growing its airport (world-leading Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport) into the state's number-one economic asset that it is today.

Not to mention the major investments that Georgia state government has made (in such facilities as the Georgia Dome and the massive Georgia World Congress Center as well as roadways like Georgia 400 and industries like Television/Film production) to help further propel the state's main economic driver in Atlanta.

Without that massive amount of public and private investment that Atlanta has driven into the area, virtually all of the surrounding and outlying cities and towns that we know as being prosperous suburbs and exurbs of Atlanta most likely currently are nothing but a collection of small rural towns and hamlets.

[arjay57]

There's a symbiotic relationship between cities and their surrounding suburbs.

However, in most cases the "dividing line" is very blurred. In Atlanta, for instance, the vast majority of the city IS a suburb. So you wouldn't know when you had entered or exited the city limits unless you saw a sign.

[back2atl]

So true, there's just not much city in the city of Atlanta. I love it, don't get me wrong, I had a great 10 years there. But the idea that the suburbs or OTP are really that much different is pretty silly, unless you're talking about the few actually urban areas. The OTP vs ITP stuff is pretty provincial / narrow in focus to me. It's all Atlanta metro at his point!

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by back2atl

So true, there's just not much city in the city of Atlanta. I love it, don't get me wrong, I had a great 10 years there. But the idea that the suburbs or OTP are really that much different is pretty silly, unless you're talking about the few actually urban areas. The OTP vs ITP stuff is pretty provincial / narrow in focus to me. It's all Atlanta metro at his point!

I have to agree. Atlanta is moving into a phase where many of its' suburbs are urbanizing and forming cores of their own. ITP vs OTP seems a rather dated argument to me as well.