"The Boring Company" Tunnels: A Solution Atlanta Urbanists and Suburbanists Both Can Support? (Tucker: how much, maintenance)

[primaltech]

Building 4 miles of tunneled rail, and one station, would cost 2 billion? Seriously?

Even if so, it's doable. The Cumberland CID has a whole lot of high-volume retail, that stays crowded and busy every day. A 1% sales tax within that zone should be able to generate 2 billion over 40 years, especially if there's state funds and federal funds to help.

We're talking about an area that is absolutely overflowing with retail.

[TheTravelinMan]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Yeah, and since we have no MARTA service, I'm quite glad we don't collect sales taxes for MARTA. That would be a ripoff to Cobb residents.

I'm just sick of the whole "we pay for MARTA but Cobb doesn't contribute" crap. No, you pay for what you get, and we pay for what we get.

The MARTA funding system is pretty dang fair. I just wish Cobb would choose to have MARTA service.

I am a Cobb resident that wishes Cobb had MARTA service as well. I would also like to point out that there are already a number of MARTA buses that go into Cobb.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Building 4 miles of tunneled rail, and one station, would cost 2 billion? Seriously?

I wonder about that figure, too.

Cobb recently built a 5.5-mile, 27-ft-dia tunnel through hard rock with depths from 150 to 400 ft, for $305 million.

That included several connector tunnels with lengths up to 3,200 ft, two 44-ft-dia construction shafts at depths of 285 ft, and a number of other major elements.

Those boys don't fool around.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by TheTravelinMan

I am a Cobb resident that wishes Cobb had MARTA service as well. I would also like to point out that there are already a number of MARTA buses that go into Cobb.

To my knowledge there are 2 MARTA bus routes in Cobb. One is the #12, which runs on about 2 miles of Cobb Pkwy with a few stops, on Akers Mill for less than half a mile with just a couple stops, and then loops and stops at the Cumberland Transfer Center and then heads back the same way.

And then the other bus I think is basically just a shuttle between Hamilton E. Holmes station and Six Flags. Not sure the route #.

These exist because of MARTA-CCT service agreement, where I guess they're each supposed to be beneficial to each agency in terms of adding riders enough to justify it.

If Cobb had a MARTA station 2 miles or less from its border (like Gwinnett has with Doraville Station), there wouldn't be a need for that transfer center. Would really help things quite a bit, really.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by jsvh

If that is Cobb's priority, they can probably pay for it. It will just mean less transit projects elsewhere in Cobb. (Of course 10% or 90% of the zero dollars Cobb is contributing towards MARTA is still $0.)

They have/had a TBM, why didn't they use it for transportation tunnel?
As arjay has brought up many times with Driller Mike.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

To my knowledge there are 2 MARTA bus routes in Cobb. One is the #12, which runs on about 2 miles of Cobb Pkwy with a few stops, on Akers Mill for less than half a mile with just a couple stops, and then loops and stops at the Cumberland Transfer Center and then heads back the same way.

And then the other bus I think is basically just a shuttle between Hamilton E. Holmes station and Six Flags. Not sure the route #.

These exist because of MARTA-CCT service agreement, where I guess they're each supposed to be beneficial to each agency in terms of adding riders enough to justify it.

If Cobb had a MARTA station 2 miles or less from its border (like Gwinnett has with Doraville Station), there wouldn't be a need for that transfer center. Would really help things quite a bit, really.

CCT abandoned their service along Cobb Pkwy to the river, as they felt MARTA could provide the service IN THEIR COUNTY!?
Six Flags MARTA route 201

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by cqholt

CCT abandoned their service along Cobb Pkwy to the river, as they felt MARTA could provide the service IN THEIR COUNTY!?

No, they re-routed CCT route 10 to use the I-75 HOV lanes, taking advantage of the fact that MARTA local route 12 already covers that segment of Cobb Pkwy. There was duplicated coverage there before.

It is weird though, there are MARTA bus stops, in Cobb County. About 10 or so of them, within walking distance of various apartments, condos, lots of retail, and offices. Technically speaking, Cobb has MARTA:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8709...7i13312!8i6656

Which when I think about that, always has me thinking: I wish MARTA could take over and run CCT. I wish that even with our limited-funded, bus-only transit services, I wish all that was at least run by MARTA.

So that it would just be a question of increasing funding, to build rail service, and increased bus service. Instead of 'not letting MARTA into our county'.

The very existence of CCT and GCT, has always bothered me.

[TheTravelinMan]

Originally Posted by cqholt

CCT abandoned their service along Cobb Pkwy to the river, as they felt MARTA could provide the service IN THEIR COUNTY!?
Six Flags MARTA route 201

Yes #201 and #12 are the two MARTA routes that come into Cobb. Also to note is that in addition to the express routes that most people associate with CCT (the ones that run down 75 to Midtown and Downtown) there are two local CCT routes that end at HE Holmes station - routes 25 and 30

[TheTravelinMan]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Technically speaking, Cobb has MARTA:

So that it would just be a question of increasing funding, to build rail service, and increased bus service. Instead of 'not letting MARTA into our county'.

The very existence of CCT and GCT, has always bothered me.

Exactly!

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Building 4 miles of tunneled rail, and one station, would cost 2 billion? Seriously?

Even if so, it's doable. The Cumberland CID has a whole lot of high-volume retail, that stays crowded and busy every day. A 1% sales tax within that zone should be able to generate 2 billion over 40 years, especially if there's state funds and federal funds to help.

We're talking about an area that is absolutely overflowing with retail.

4 miles? Fome where to where? Anything going from Lindbergh to Cumberland is going to be 6.5 miles, at least. Using your routing as pictured, we´re looking at 7.5 miles. At $350 Mil. Per mile, that's already $2.3 - $2.6 Billion, and that per mile cost may very well be low. Also, consider that you should have more than just the 2 stations, with future proofing, at least, for more stations over such a long deistance. There's also the need to get trains in and out of service. You'll need some kind of access tunnels, so the entire thing can't be deep bore.

You still haven't provided any actual math to show that Cumberland could afford to pay for this. Do you have any actual numbers to show that Cumberland, on its own, could generate that much sales-tax revenue? I mean, just look at the CoA tax, that's $2.5-$3 Bil. for the entire city over the 37 year period. I would be INCREADIBLY surprised if Cumberland, on its own, generated over a third of Atlanta's revenue on its own (which would be needed for federal backing).

Maybe, just maybe Cumberland could fund half the line, but then we're back at the problem of MARTA not having the funding to meet the other half.

Originally Posted by arjay57

I wonder about that figure, too.

Cobb recently built a 5.5-mile, 27-ft-dia tunnel through hard rock with depths from 150 to 400 ft, for $305 million.

That included several connector tunnels with lengths up to 3,200 ft, two 44-ft-dia construction shafts at depths of 285 ft, and a number of other major elements.

Those boys don't fool around.

Well, the 27ft TBMs are about the right size for building transit tunnels. Just for one train, though, so two tunnels would need to be built.

Buuuut, you have to consider that transit tunnels are far more complex than water tunnels. There's a LOT more that goes into them than concrete walls. Rails, substations, wiring, drainage and pumps, emergency tunnels, ventelation, etc. On, plus all the stations, additional rail cars, additional maintenance facilities, etc.

Oh, and the water tunnels are far, far deeper than transit tunnels should be. Peachtree Center station is only 120ft down. You wouldn't want to double that. Not without sacrificing access. So, especially since you'd want more than just the two tunnels, you won't be digging super deep, and that increases your chances of running into other buried things.

So, that is where so much money ends up going. The tunneling is expensive, don't get me wrong, but so is everything that comes after it.

Originally Posted by cqholt

They have/had a TBM, why didn't they use it for transportation tunnel?
As arjay has brought up many times with Driller Mike.

As has been said before to that statement, Driller Mike is not big enough to be used for transit tunnels.

Cobb likely didn't use their TBM for transit tunnels because it would have still been prohibitively expensive to do so.