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While I realize it's really come down to "how ridiculous can I sound" i'd like to remind you that you essentially need a form of ID to even get a job these days. Georgia already has a FREE voter ID and if your argument is that "time is money" and at the same time "they don't have enough money to pay for an ID" then it makes your argument ever more ridiculous.
Second:
How do you know exactly how much voter fraud is going on if you don't have to show your ID at the polls? Sure there can be estimates but just how accurate are they? Even if we take the 0.0025% number you provided that's still almost 4,000 fraudulent votes in this past election. Yeah it's a drop in the bucket but if something can be done now that makes sense in order to ensure that those that cast ballots are actually who they say they are then why not do it?
First and foremost the reasons mentioned in previous posts aren't BS. The simple reason that is true is because many people already don't have IDs to begin with. Period. The disparity exists. Period.
You can't argue your way out of that.
Beyond that your arguments are assuming everyone is middle class, has a car, has easy means of transportation, and their only cost is "time is money"
No truly put yourselves in the shoes of someone only making $14k/year working multiple minimum wage jobs.
No car. Scraping by. And there is a higher change you originated from a broken or semi-broken or problematic home.... In turn a higher chance you don't have all your paperwork in order from your birth records on...
The cost for them to get everything they need to get an ID and then have to travel out of their way when they might not have easy means to can be quite expensive to someone scraping by.
Truth it voter fraud is a hoax. It is so miniscule and is a fabricated story that it is a wide spread problem. The reality is most voter fraud is stopped through the voter registration process and not through the ID at the poll.
If there is really a widespread problem with dead people voting, then it is measurable without the use of IDs. Cross reference voter roles with death certificates (which they do) and see if anyone who is dead was checked off as voting. Tally that number up and see if it is actually a widespread problem. It isn't.
Instead people are pushing policies that will further discourage and increase the costs of 2-4% of the population from voting to stop a few dozen cases of voter fraud. The con outweighs the pro by an extensive margin.
Furthermore you're wrong about needing an ID to get a job. You're thinking of things through your own eyes/experiences too much and pretending it is the same for everyone. I'm a contract worker. I need an ID to cross international borders, however I have never shown an ID to get and invoice my contracts/jobs and I come from the more affluent half of town. They only need my taxpayer identification number for tax records.
The same is often true for day laborers and people trying to scrounge up work or extra gigs. Not everyone works for a large corporation with a large HR office trying to follow a formulaic method of paperwork to save them from future lawsuits.
Early vote tally foretells soaring turnout in most expensive House race ever
"Early-vote turnout soars in Georgia special election....Over 140,000 people have already voted in the race between Karen Handel and Jon Ossoff, including 36,000 who didn't vote in the first round." (POLITICO Magazine)
Early voting in Georgia's special House election closed Friday evening with over 140,000 ballots cast, with overall turnout looking likely to rise in Tuesday's closely watched matchup between Democrat Jon Ossoff and Republican Karen Handel.
The early voters in the second round include over 36,000 people who did not participate in April, according to data from the Georgia secretary of state's office. That includes past voters who stayed home as well as newly registered voters who added their names to the rolls in Georgia's 6th District after the primary.
The total number of voters on Tuesday is expected to surpass the high turnout in the first round, when over 192,000 voters cast ballots, including about 57,000 who voted early. The final turnout on Tuesday could easily exceed the vote total in the 2014 midterm elections, when over 210,500 people voted in the district.
The high levels of voting reflect extraordinarily high local interest in the race. After a $50 million campaign (a national record for a House race), 92 percent of voters said they are watching the race "closely," including 64 percent following it "very closely," according to a recent Atlanta Journal Constitution poll. And 52 percent of voters said in the poll that they think the race between Handel and Ossoff is more important than past elections.
Both parties have been combing the district for additional supporters since the first round, when Ossoff got over 48 percent of the vote — 3,612 votes short of a majority that would have won the seat for the Democrat without a runoff. Handel qualified for the June 20 runoff in second place with 20 percent of the vote, though Republican candidates combined for 51 percent support in the first round.
Handel and the GOP have focused on approximately 35,000 voters who cast GOP ballots in Georgia's 2016 presidential primary but did not vote on April 18. Democrats have fewer outstanding base votes to chase, with about 11,000 2016 presidential primary voters in the district who didn't cast ballots in April. Ossoff's campaign is also seeking support from thousands of newly registered voters and some independents who are not regular voters.
"Early vote tally foretells soaring turnout in most expensive House race ever" (CNN)
(CNN)More than 140,000 voters had cast their ballots by the time early voting in Georgia closed Friday -- another indication of sky-high turnout in the closely watched runoff for a House seat between Democrat Jon Ossoff and Republican Karen Handel.
And that's leaving neither side confident of victory in what is likely to be a tight race for Georgia's 6th Congressional District seat.
The pool of early voters includes more than 36,000 who did not participate in the April primary contest for the seat, which was vacated when former Rep. Tom Price became President Donald Trump's health and human services secretary, according to the Georgia secretary of state's office.
Ossoff has run a much better campaign, which is pretty ironic since handle has been in politics forever. Of course it helps to have more money. I just hope that he is able to act on at least some of the topics he's discussed. I think he'll have a little more power than most junior congressmen since I foresee the Dems trying to groom him to run for a much bigger office once he turns 35
People are looking to these special elections as bellwethers. If a ruby red district turns blue, that reasonably undercuts Republican confidence in being able to hold the Senate in 2020. Beyond that, a ruby red district turning blue eats away at the White House's political capital. Roughly 70% of Americans see that as a good thing, right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefullyMoving
Here's what I don't understand: Why are Liberals so against requiring some type of ID to vote?
Let's compromise: Let's require two forms of ID. The one currently required and a Food Stamps EBT card. You cannot vote unless you present both.
Make it so everyone can get a Food Stamps EBT card by going down to their county DFCS office and applying, even if they aren't eligible for food stamps and therefore the card provides them no benefit.
Why would rich people resist that idea? Could it be because they don't have that form of ID already, because it doesn't benefit them to have one, and therefore it would be a nuisance to get one?
Understand now?
Even that's not a perfect analogy because it is far less of a burden on a rich person to go through the otherwise pointless motions to obtain a Food Stamps EBT card that provides them no financial benefit than it would be for a poor person to go through the otherwise pointless motions to obtain a voter ID card.
Perhaps one needs to understand the experience of living in poverty better to appreciate it, but such requirements are de facto poll taxes, and therefore an effective violation of civil rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefullyMoving
Do I think there's massive voter fraud out there? Probably not but if you need an ID to buy a beer then why don't you need one to cast a vote? Only makes sense to me.
It sounds like you think everyone can afford to buy a beer as casually as you do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefullyMoving
Sounds like a lot of BS excuses.
Sounds like your privilege talking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefullyMoving
The reality we all know is that Trump will likely not get a 2nd term. The country is turning more blue as a whole and the reason he's president now is because Clinton voters didn't show up to vote.
Correction: Sanders voters didn't show up to vote.
That is a great point that even if and when Georgia becomes more blue than red that the state will still be in play for a reasonable, moderate Republican in presidential and gubernatorial elections.
Are there any of those left? The Republican Party has been purging itself of moderates - "RINOs" in Republican parlance - since the early 1990s. As far as the ("new") Republican Party is concerned, a moderate Republican is just a Democrat going slowly instead of fast [and I'm not saying that they're wrong - the reason for putting out political hits on RINOs was to complete the transition of the Republican Party from a party that featured some prominent moderate progressives (like Jacob Javitz, Margaret Chase Smith, and Nelson Rockefeller) into a party of rabid reactionaries (like Ronald Reagan, George W Bush, and Donald Trump). I would go as far as to say that if it weren't for the purging of RINOs from the GOP and her family history in the Democratic Party, we very well might have had President Hillary Clinton (R-NY) right now - that is how far to the right the GOP has driven itself in the last thirty years.]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll
If Georgia's population does actually approach the 60% minority mark by 2030, that likely would make it a state where progressive politicians in the Bernie Sanders mold could do very well in statewide and presidential elections...and where deeply conservative Republican candidates likely will struggle in statewide elections (...see California where, despite being a state that has been the home of such notable Republican politicians like Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, Republicans have been reported to make up about only 28% of all registered voters in the state as of 2016).
Perhaps, but if this election was the pyrrhic victory that some folks earlier in the thread claimed, then what should happen is the Republican Party become an irrelevant third party, and the Democratic Party would then splinter into the Clintonians and the Bernie Bros. That will split the minority vote - not evenly, but still quite substantially.
Having said that, I see more indications that the Democratic Party is ready to launch its own RINO-like campaign - a purity campaign to by the far left that might have the same, but reflexive effect, chasing the moderates back to a "new 'new'" GOP which remarkably would look just like what the GOP would have looked like led by folks like Jacob Javitz, Margaret Chase Smith, and Nelson Rockefeller. Wouldn't that be interesting? We live in interesting times.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKCorey
Does the winner have to do the normal 50+1 or does it not matter in a runoff election?
In the case of two candidates, how can it be otherwise?
The only possible scenario for such a situation would be if they get exactly the same number of votes, and what is the statistical probability of such an occurence?
First and foremost the reasons mentioned in previous posts aren't BS. The simple reason that is true is because many people already don't have IDs to begin with. Period. The disparity exists. Period.
You can't argue your way out of that.
Beyond that your arguments are assuming everyone is middle class, has a car, has easy means of transportation, and their only cost is "time is money"
No truly put yourselves in the shoes of someone only making $14k/year working multiple minimum wage jobs.
No car. Scraping by. And there is a higher change you originated from a broken or semi-broken or problematic home.... In turn a higher chance you don't have all your paperwork in order from your birth records on...
The cost for them to get everything they need to get an ID and then have to travel out of their way when they might not have easy means to can be quite expensive to someone scraping by.
Truth it voter fraud is a hoax. It is so miniscule and is a fabricated story that it is a wide spread problem. The reality is most voter fraud is stopped through the voter registration process and not through the ID at the poll.
If there is really a widespread problem with dead people voting, then it is measurable without the use of IDs. Cross reference voter roles with death certificates (which they do) and see if anyone who is dead was checked off as voting. Tally that number up and see if it is actually a widespread problem. It isn't.
Instead people are pushing policies that will further discourage and increase the costs of 2-4% of the population from voting to stop a few dozen cases of voter fraud. The con outweighs the pro by an extensive margin.
Furthermore you're wrong about needing an ID to get a job. You're thinking of things through your own eyes/experiences too much and pretending it is the same for everyone. I'm a contract worker. I need an ID to cross international borders, however I have never shown an ID to get and invoice my contracts/jobs and I come from the more affluent half of town. They only need my taxpayer identification number for tax records.
The same is often true for day laborers and people trying to scrounge up work or extra gigs. Not everyone works for a large corporation with a large HR office trying to follow a formulaic method of paperwork to save them from future lawsuits.
1. 40 hours of minimum wage per week equal over $15,000. So your "make $14,000 working multiple jobs" statement is pure BS just like the rest of your argument. Even McDonalds in Atlanta pays more than minimum wage btw.
2. Most contract workers make quite a bit over minimum wage. Laborers included. With an unemployment rate under 5% anyone can find a job paying more than minimum wage.
3. Just because one race happens to have more people without an ID doesn't mean that requiring and ID is racist. Men commit more crimes and make up a larger percentage of the prison population...is the law sexist? No.
The reality we all know is that Trump will likely not get a 2nd term. The country is turning more blue as a whole and the reason he's president now is because Clinton voters didn't show up to vote.
The reason Trump won was Clinton's ineffective campaign. Handel is running the same type of campaign Clinton was. Attack the competition, stay 100% partisan. That's not a winning strategy, people want to hear about real policy positions that effect them here in America. No one cares about Russia or the Middle East, the people want more focus on their own community.
1. 40 hours of minimum wage per week equal over $15,000. So your "make $14,000 working multiple jobs" statement is pure BS just like the rest of your argument. Even McDonalds in Atlanta pays more than minimum wage btw.
2. Most contract workers make quite a bit over minimum wage. Laborers included. With an unemployment rate under 5% anyone can find a job paying more than minimum wage.
3. Just because one race happens to have more people without an ID doesn't mean that requiring and ID is racist. Men commit more crimes and make up a larger percentage of the prison population...is the law sexist? No.
1. This increasingly shows how disconnected you are from the realities of others. Most in the lower rungs DO NOT have full time 40+ hour/week jobs. They take work as they find it and it often comes in work that is inconsistent.
2. This is not true. Simply stated that people do make minimum wage. Again you're trying to apply a logic that what every person in the middle class faces... is what every person faces. It's incorrect logic.
3. Incorrect. You're inventing arguments to give a rebuttal to.... I never said anything about racism. I know you're hard pressed to think of a proper rebuttal. There is a racial component to this, given the racial disparity in income that exists. However, we don't have to discuss it because the same arguments at hand can be used about rural low-income whites and many migrants from many new places that have not gained a economic foothold for themselves yet.
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Early vote tally foretells soaring turnout in most expensive House race ever
