Transit ridership down in Atlanta and across USA (maintenance, cost)

[bu2]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

But, AVs will drive much better and current choke points on the interstate will actually run smoothly. I wouldn't expect to stop on the interstate hardly ever again. You would be slowed coming into congestion or entering the interstate. When all the vehicles are networked, the road throughput should increase significantly.

Even though AVs won't eliminate congestion, it will make things much better in regards to the overall commuting experience. For many people now, it takes up a significant portion of your life. Time where you really shouldn't be doing anything else. Free that up and congestion isn't nearly as bad of a thing as it used to. It's more free time

I do wonder what the role of transit will be in the future. If you have the money, you're going to opt for the AV experience. It's better in every aspect. But, who knows how long that will take. We have to increase commuter bandwidth in Atlanta. Money has to be spent. Better to provide alternatives to already massive roads than keep funding more of the same.

I think that's the real point. Its hard to tell what will happen, but you can't assume everything will stay the same, whether it be gas prices, AVs, telecommuting, or the location of jobs. And you need to consider ranges of possibilities. The rail systems are big, inflexible investments.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by bu2

I think that's the real point. Its hard to tell what will happen, but you can't assume everything will stay the same, whether it be gas prices, AVs, telecommuting, or the location of jobs. And you need to consider ranges of possibilities. The rail systems are big, inflexible investments.

But if you don't know how things will change, it's best to build what you do know while you learn about those other variables. We know rail and fixed guideway. We know their advantages, what you call 'inflexible', when concentrating and supporting density.

Even as things change, though, these fixed routes will still be useful, as things can adapt around them, using them as the base to build off of. You know, infrastructure.

[whodean]

Originally Posted by AUGnative

I think once we see self driving cars becoming the norm and ride pool apps using this technology.. traditional public transit will become virtually nonexistant.

Yep.

[ATLfromJAX]

Uber and Lyft have huge impact on transit numbers.

I had a family member that was riding a combination of MARTA bus and rail 1.5-2hrs each way to work from Dekalb to Fulton. Now he uses Uber and is home in 20-25 mins.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by ATLfromJAX

Uber and Lyft have huge impact on transit numbers.

I had a family member that was riding a combination of MARTA bus and rail 1.5-2hrs each way to work from Dekalb to Fulton. Now he uses Uber and is home in 20-25 mins.

What's the cost difference and the effect on their disposable income?

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by cqholt

What's the cost difference and the effect on their disposable income?

Well, Uber isn't generating a profit, despite using publicly available roads.

[SAAN]

Transit ridership might be down because generally riding transit sucks sometimes. You are pretty much on their schedule and when it comes or doesnt want to come. Then you add on the occasional smelly person, vulgar/loud person, beggar person and your ride can get interesting at times too when the bus/train is late to add to why was just mentioned.

Most people will remember the 1-2 hour ride to get home on transit vs the 1-2hr ride to get home when then expressway was blocked due to a fatal accident.

With a car and cheap gas, if there is no traffic, you can pretty much get where you need to go within 30mins in the metro. Im all for transit as an alternative to traffic and downtown parking, but sometimes your own vehicle is just more convenient and comfortable, but the trade off is car payments, insurance, gas and upkeep.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by SAAN

Transit ridership might be down because generally riding transit sucks sometimes. You are pretty much on their schedule and when it comes or doesnt want to come. Then you add on the occasional smelly person, vulgar/loud person, beggar person and your ride can get interesting at times too when the bus/train is late to add to why was just mentioned.

Most people will remember the 1-2 hour ride to get home on transit vs the 1-2hr ride to get home when then expressway was blocked due to a fatal accident.

With a car and cheap gas, if there is no traffic, you can pretty much get where you need to go within 30mins in the metro. Im all for transit as an alternative to traffic and downtown parking, but sometimes your own vehicle is just more convenient and comfortable, but the trade off is car payments, insurance, gas and upkeep.

Key phrase here.

[bu2]

Actually the key is that people do make decisions based on the trade-offs. A lot of transit people seem to assume that if you build it they will come. That is a huge flaw with a lot of these streetcar projects around the country, which are just ultra expensive, inflexible buses that make fewer stops than buses.

Parking is the big cost of driving that is often hidden. Its a big reason why downtowns tend to have better transit ridership. Few employers downtown subsidize parking, but its the norm elsewhere. Cities need to work to end the hidden employer subsidy.

And what do Uber and self-driving vehicles do to these trade-offs?

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by bu2

Actually the key is that people do make decisions based on the trade-offs. A lot of transit people seem to assume that if you build it they will come. That is a huge flaw with a lot of these streetcar projects around the country, which are just ultra expensive, inflexible buses that make fewer stops than buses.

What you keep thinking of as drawbacks have already been shown to be advantages. Streetcars are fixed-guideway investments that are higher capacity than buses, actually attract and concentrate development unlike buses, and which have construction cost overlaps when trying to make buses do the same things that fixed guide way transit does.

Parking is the big cost of driving that is often hidden. Its a big reason why downtowns tend to have better transit ridership. Few employers downtown subsidize parking, but its the norm elsewhere. Cities need to work to end the hidden employer subsidy.

And what do Uber and self-driving vehicles do to these trade-offs?

I agree, we should be bringing as many negative externalities of roads out of hiding as possible.