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Old 07-28-2017, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,698,706 times
Reputation: 5702

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Again, you are making your case to the wrong person, cq.

What you've said is what cycle advocates should have been saying at the Shiloh Missionary Baptist Church and talking up in the Westview community.
Like this local resident and cycle advocate?
Quote:
Zahra Alabanza looks at the section of Westview Drive, in front of Shiloh Missionary Baptist Church, where the bike lane used to be.

“It was a typical bike lane,” she said. “It was protected so it had barriers between it and traffic, which tends to make people feel safe.”

As a resident of the neighborhood and co-founder of the black cycling collective Red Bike and Green, Alabanza’s been thinking about what led the bike lane to be taken out.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:32 PM
 
31,993 posts, read 36,521,236 times
Reputation: 13254
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Like this local resident and cycle advocate?
Yep, that's a start.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,580 posts, read 2,464,531 times
Reputation: 1614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
Looks like I'll have to donate money to his opponent.
I would say donate to Kim Parmer then. She is the former chair of the land use and zoning for NPU T...
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,698,706 times
Reputation: 5702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
Looks like I'll have to donate money to his opponent.
Jason Dozier is another good candidate
https://votedozier.com/
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Old 07-28-2017, 06:05 PM
 
5,633 posts, read 5,315,307 times
Reputation: 3855
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
“Most people feel like these bikes lanes are not for the people here,” he said. “It's for the people to come.”

Shudder! God forbid we be proactive and do anything to plan for future needs. Just what we need in elected office: People who can't see beyond their own nose.
To be fair, and I'm on no ones' side here...just because you like something or presume it to be best for everyone, that does not mean others have to like it or that they are necessarily short-sighted. If residents of an area do not want something, who are you to tell them they are wrong and need to want what you want? Try going into a small rural town and telling them you want to make their town more modern...they'll crucify you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
I cannot speak on the use of the lanes, but ABC published stats that since installation crash rates have dropped. Westview Bike Lane Removed?! - Atlanta Bicycle Coalition
Those stats are eye popping enough to warrant keeping the infrastructure.
Really, how many crashes were there on that short section of Westview, which is not exactly a highway? If there were preiously three, and now there were two, that looks like a huge drop in percentages, but it's actually completely insignificant. I'd like to see the actual numbers. Doesn't mean I think the lanes should be taken away.
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Old 07-29-2017, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,559 posts, read 4,657,314 times
Reputation: 2284
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
To be fair, and I'm on no ones' side here...just because you like something or presume it to be best for everyone, that does not mean others have to like it or that they are necessarily short-sighted. If residents of an area do not want something, who are you to tell them they are wrong and need to want what you want? Try going into a small rural town and telling them you want to make their town more modern...they'll crucify you.
There's a difference between a presumption, and having supporting data. This is a case of the latter.

To quote /u/votejasondozier from the subreddit:
Quote:
I suppose there's a mismatch between perception and reality. According to the Atlanta Bicycle Coalition, when these lanes were installed, they resulted in a 38% reduction of crashes and a 68% reduction of crashes that resulted in injuries. Furthermore, nearly 40% of households in southwest Atlanta don't own or have access to a car as their primary means of transportation and have to rely on alternative forms of transportation to get to work, school, daycare, and everything in between. So I'm convinced that these lanes do serve the people in these communities, and these neighbors deserve safe passage just like everybody else. I'd also add that many of the folks that attend Shiloh don't live in the community, so then that begs the question, who actually represents the community when these decisions are being made?
You're right, they don't have to like it, but that doesn't mean it's right. That doesn't mean they should be the voice that wins. Just because they live there doesn't automatically mean they have a better grasp on reality than someone who is directly measuring the area.

As an aside, though it's really a topic for another thread, if I could go to a rural town with offers of jobs and cash-flow, in exchange for modernization, I think you would be surprised at how many places would climb over one another to get it.

Quote:
Really, how many crashes were there on that short section of Westview, which is not exactly a highway? If there were preiously three, and now there were two, that looks like a huge drop in percentages, but it's actually completely insignificant. I'd like to see the actual numbers. Doesn't mean I think the lanes should be taken away.
So, assuming that it's these percentages are accurate, the smallest whole number to whole number reductions are 50*0.38 = 19, or a 31 total crash reduction, and 25*0.68 = 17, or an 8 injury-crash reduction. Yeah it'd like to see the numbers as well, but that's pretty significant right there. Besides, any added decimal precision would just mean that you need a higher initial number of crashes to reduce down from to get another whole-number reduction.
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Old 07-29-2017, 02:37 PM
 
31,993 posts, read 36,521,236 times
Reputation: 13254
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Really, how many crashes were there on that short section of Westview, which is not exactly a highway? If there were preiously three, and now there were two, that looks like a huge drop in percentages, but it's actually completely insignificant. I'd like to see the actual numbers. Doesn't mean I think the lanes should be taken away.
It would be interesting to know whether bikes were involved in any of these crashes.
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Old 07-29-2017, 10:02 PM
 
5,633 posts, read 5,315,307 times
Reputation: 3855
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
There's a difference between a presumption, and having supporting data. This is a case of the latter.

To quote /u/votejasondozier from the subreddit:
You're right, they don't have to like it, but that doesn't mean it's right. That doesn't mean they should be the voice that wins. Just because they live there doesn't automatically mean they have a better grasp on reality than someone who is directly measuring the area.

As an aside, though it's really a topic for another thread, if I could go to a rural town with offers of jobs and cash-flow, in exchange for modernization, I think you would be surprised at how many places would climb over one another to get it.
People don't like when you change the menu at a restaurant. Or when you come up with "New Coke". Many people are just not a fan of urbanism-style policies, and that does not make them wrong. For anyone to think that their new way is the "right" way and everyone else is wrong is extremey elitist. You're basically telling people that you don't care what they want for their neighborhood or town. What you think is better is the way it should be.

I don't support the removal of this, but let's be serious...it's the removal of a small section in front of one part of one city block. It's not going to create any measurable safety issues.


Quote:
So, assuming that it's these percentages are accurate, the smallest whole number to whole number reductions are 50*0.38 = 19, or a 31 total crash reduction, and 25*0.68 = 17, or an 8 injury-crash reduction. Yeah it'd like to see the numbers as well, but that's pretty significant right there. Besides, any added decimal precision would just mean that you need a higher initial number of crashes to reduce down from to get another whole-number reduction.
If a short section of a non-major road has dozens of injury crashes each year, then there is something very, very odd going on.
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Old 07-30-2017, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,559 posts, read 4,657,314 times
Reputation: 2284
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
People don't like when you change the menu at a restaurant. Or when you come up with "New Coke". Many people are just not a fan of urbanism-style policies, and that does not make them wrong. For anyone to think that their new way is the "right" way and everyone else is wrong is extremey elitist. You're basically telling people that you don't care what they want for their neighborhood or town. What you think is better is the way it should be.
We're not talking about a menu or soda flavor change. We're talking about quantifying loss of property and human injury, and implementing known solutions with tangible outcomes.

I'm getting so tired of this "everyone's opinion is equally valid" stuff when we're talking about measurable, quantifiable things. It seems to crop up at every turn and, as someone who has to work in the measurable world, it's incredibly frustrating to see. It doesn't matter if someone doesn't like a bike lane if it's measurably improved safety in the area. Especially if it's improved net mobility for both current residents and future ones.

I do care what people think, but I also worry when they ignore objective, tangible reality. That's not public input so much as populist override against the real world, to a measurable detriment.

Quote:
I don't support the removal of this, but let's be serious...it's the removal of a small section in front of one part of one city block. It's not going to create any measurable safety issues.
I know you don't, just arguing against your Devil's Advocate.

Even so, apparently that's incorrect, since there's already been measured safety improvements.
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Old 07-30-2017, 04:30 PM
 
561 posts, read 774,831 times
Reputation: 681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
Looks like I'll have to donate money to his opponent.
Jason Dozier is running in this district. He actually bikes to work and uses MARTA every day.

https://votedozier.com/

Restore the Westview Bike Lane! – Jason Dozier

https://www.facebook.com/votejasondozier/

Quote:
As the Westview Drive cycle track removal continues to pick up media coverage and spur additional conversation, we wanted to reiterate where we stand on the issue:

From the article: “Most people feel like these bikes lanes are not for the people here,” he said. “It's for the people to come.”

There appears to be a mismatch between perception and reality. According to the Atlanta Bicycle Coalition, when these lanes were installed, they resulted in a 38% reduction of crashes and a 68% reduction of crashes that resulted in injuries. Furthermore, nearly 40% of households in southwest Atlanta don't own or have access to a car as their primary means of transportation and have to rely on alternative forms of transportation to get to work, school, daycare, and everything in between. So I'm convinced that these lanes do serve the people in these communities, and these neighbors deserve safe passage just like everybody else.

Communities ought to come first. But we're over-correcting a breakdown in the community engagement process with yet another breakdown in that process, putting people's lives at risk in the meantime. Yes, community engagement is absolutely critical--but that goes both ways when these decisions are being made.

I think it's important to also recognize that communities belong not only to those that live in them, but those that work, play, and generally engage with them on a routine basis. Transportation policy cannot be dictated solely at the discretion of a single block, street, or individual. Let's come together as a community to ensure these routes are developed in a way that conform to the standards of the community, but removing them ought to have those same community considerations. Not just from residents, but from all stakeholders.

We support restoring the Westview Drive cycle track. If you do as well, please join our movement to ensure that all Atlantans have access to safe passage across our city:
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