Georgia lawmakers resurrect multi-modal passenger terminal project (Atlanta, Tucker: sales, credit)

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by cqholt

A structure is not going to be able to be built within the city's 75' stream buffer.

There is still enough room, even with the buffer, to build an Armour station.

Originally Posted by aries4118

OK, you're starting to sound like someone I work with whose main motivation is to just get it done.

Just getting it done is often a one-way ticket to $h!ttiness.

It's preferable to never getting it done because people keep trying to change the plan, which has already happened quite a few times now.

Serious question: how long would what you want to do take? How long would the studies take? How long would the public feedback process take? How long until new funding is identified and secured?

How many times do think that plan will need to get changed before it gets anywhere close to where the Clifton Corridor is today?

And there have been studies of the line going to Northlake/Tucker. The Hastings Cutoff, I mean, Avondale detour route is the new thing.

Yeah, going to Northlake & Tucker branching off the East-West lines, after it was determined to be too costly to approach it from the NE line. The original Tucker / Northlake route was to be Heavy rail. It was to branch off the NE rail line, cut down along the freight corridor, then cut northeast to Tucker. That was determined to be both too destructive and too costly, and so the plan was changed to branch heavy rail off of the East-West line just before the East Lake station, and follow the freight line to Tucker.

That second plan was so committed that the tunnel provisions were built for it.

When the Clifton Corridor was going through its design work, heavy rail was considered, and again it was determined to be both too expensive and too destructive, even with tunneling, to use heavy rail, so light rail was chosen to serve the entire corridor.

Even in this most recent round of route reanalysis, heavy rail was for a third time determined to be too expensive and destructive for the corridor, and so the final contenders are both heavy rail.

The fact of the matter is that heavy rail has be studied for that corridor since 1978, and, routinely, the studies have determined that heavy rail is not appropriate for the full corridor.

[arjay57]

It seems like we're getting a little hung up on rail. Let's not forget that an MMTP is by definition multi-modal, which means it has to take care of bikes, cars, buses, scooters and pedestrians as well as rail.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It seems like we're getting a little hung up on rail. Let's not forget that an MMTP is by definition multi-modal, which means it has to take care of bikes, cars, buses, scooters and pedestrians as well as rail.

And pretty much everything I've seen shows that it will. I like the bus terminal level(s) from the renderings.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

And pretty much everything I've seen shows that it will. I like the bus terminal level(s) from the renderings.

Well, I'd say that 98% of the posts on the MMTP are about rail.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Well, I'd say that 98% of the posts on the MMTP are about rail.

Because rail is sexy!

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Well, I'd say that 98% of the posts on the MMTP are about rail.

Well, what's to talk about for the buses? They'll be there and...that's about it. We have a thread for MARTA route updates, and...yea...that's about it.

[primaltech]

Yeah, I mean, I put an extremely low chance of heavy rail to either Emory or Northlake or Tucker. Not bloody likely, ever. Especially with the rise of AV and all that, and the long, long time, it would take to come online. And just all the destruction and disruption. And the huge cost, for not really an insane amount of benefit.

Heavy rail is sort of on its way out the door of history. There may be some extension and infill of existing MARTA HRT in Metro Atlanta. But we probably won't see entirely new lines. I would love to see the NW line, but it will never happen. At least as HRT.

What's much, much more likely is commuter. For a lot of reasons, one being the much lower cost per mile, and potentially utilizing already-built corridors. Also it's less urban in character, and therefore more likely to be accepted by suburban areas. So I think that's what any new lines will be, minus one or 2 light rail lines, for Emory and the one for Greebriar.

All is not lost though, as there's nowhere written that CRT has to operate all that different from HRT. The new RTD "commuter rail" line in Denver that runs to their airport, is basically just like MARTA- except with slower deceleration and acceleration. The stops are pretty quick, it has high capacity, and it has a good top speed.

So that's what I envision for new lines in Atlanta. And that's why we need this rail hub. Our "Union Station", again like Denver has benefited from.

[jsvh]

Designing room into the lower levels of whatever happens in the gulch as part of a transportation hub will be a very wise move. It is an ideal location for a transportation hub because it is already where so many lines connect or will connect including HRT, regional rail, and LRT. As pointed out earlier, you already gain a significant transportation hub if you just build out bus bays for MARTA buses, Greyhound, Megabus, CCT, Gwinnett, GA Xpress. Bonus points for LRT, Amtrak, and Commuter Rail platforms.

We don't need to know the exact technology and form future transportation will take. Maybe it is Hyperloop or autonomous street trains. But "reserved space" underneath the development of the Gulch that can be filled with a placeholder like parking or whatever for now would be a wise move.

[MattCW]

The Denver RTD commuter rail (no quotes) has one key advantage over anything we could build: it runs largely in its own right of way. While it interfaces with the national network in several places (including Union Station), if you look closely at Google Maps, it's essentially a greenfield install next to existing tracks for most of its route. But look how wide most of that area is. We'd need a massive amount of eminent domain along the corridors to achieve the same thing to achieve the same headways. The best Atlanta can do is double track all existing freight lines, with some stretches of triple or quad track where possible in particularly busy areas, and run peak trains as low as 15 minute headways for a few hours, with off-peak stretching to 1-2 hours. Even then, many lower-density lines like a Covington line can probably be just fine with 30 minute peak headways.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Designing room into the lower levels of whatever happens in the gulch as part of a transportation hub will be a very wise move. It is an ideal location for a transportation hub because it is already where so many lines connect or will connect including HRT, regional rail, and LRT. As pointed out earlier, you already gain a significant transportation hub if you just build out bus bays for MARTA buses, Greyhound, Megabus, CCT, Gwinnett, GA Xpress. Bonus points for LRT, Amtrak, and Commuter Rail platforms.

We don't need to know the exact technology and form future transportation will take. Maybe it is Hyperloop or autonomous street trains. But "reserved space" underneath the development of the Gulch that can be filled with a placeholder like parking or whatever for now would be a wise move.

Great points, jsvh.