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Old 08-14-2017, 02:52 PM
 
Location: DMV Area
1,296 posts, read 1,217,117 times
Reputation: 2616

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUGnative View Post
There is a highway north of DC that would be a good example to follow. The ICC in Montgomery and PG Counties/ It connects I270 with I95.. It is a toll road and has limited exits with strict buffers from development off of the exits.. It runs through heavily residential areas but is built in such a way to be unobtrusive. If the ICC could be extended over the Potomac River and connect to Dulles tollway and I66, then DC would effectively have a northern arc and it would certainly help alleviate traffic congestion on the Beltway which is worse than what metro Atlanta experiences.
Montgomery County doesn't want to build the connection with Route 28 in Virginia. Basically, Maryland's border with Virginia on the Potomac is right on the tidal line of the Virginia side, so therefore, Maryland would be responsible for building the bridge. But there are a lot of NIMBY's along the route in Potomac, Maryland who don't want an expansion of the freeway. And they're wealthy NIMBY's who fancy themselves living in horse country rather than in the middle of a large metropolitan area, and are very vocal about not wanting a tollway and bridge through their area. Meanwhile, the American Legion Bridge has already been widened and is still congested from all the people leaving Maryland to go their jobs in Northern Virginia every day. And as a former resident of ATL, I can attest the Beltway is far worse than the Perimeter when it comes to congestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Where do you get the money? Instead couldn't that be better spent with commuter and intercity rail?
It could, but a lot of people in the area where the northern arc is would much rather pay for another freeway instead of commuter rail. Not happening in a fiscally conservative area such as North Georgia. Somehow, North Texas (which is just as fiscally conservative, if not more than North Georgia) has managed to have both the HOT lanes on its freeways AND commuter rail, while North Georgia residents still fight against infrastructure that is actually needed. Atlanta needs both the HOT lanes on 285 and commuter rail.
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Old 08-15-2017, 03:41 AM
 
10,392 posts, read 11,478,434 times
Reputation: 7817
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuit_head View Post
Montgomery County doesn't want to build the connection with Route 28 in Virginia. Basically, Maryland's border with Virginia on the Potomac is right on the tidal line of the Virginia side, so therefore, Maryland would be responsible for building the bridge. But there are a lot of NIMBY's along the route in Potomac, Maryland who don't want an expansion of the freeway. And they're wealthy NIMBY's who fancy themselves living in horse country rather than in the middle of a large metropolitan area, and are very vocal about not wanting a tollway and bridge through their area. Meanwhile, the American Legion Bridge has already been widened and is still congested from all the people leaving Maryland to go their jobs in Northern Virginia every day. And as a former resident of ATL, I can attest the Beltway is far worse than the Perimeter when it comes to congestion.
There is a similar dynamic at play here along the erstwhile proposed route of the Northern Arc superhighway in the North Atlanta outer suburbs and exurbs.

There are a lot of affluent NIMBY's along the path of the erstwhile proposed Northern Arc highway north of Atlanta who fancy themselves living in the foothills of the North Georgia Mountains (the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains/Southern Appalachian Mountains of North Georgia) and are very vocal about not wanting a superhighway of any kind constructed through their area which they hold in very high self-regard as being one of the best outer-suburban areas in America.

It was the outspokenness of those NIMBY's in a very robust anti-highway coalition that included other local landowners, Intown/ITP Atlantans, other OTP metro Atlantans and local and national environmentalists that successfully defeated the Northern Arc superhighway and led to the increasingly controversial road's cancellation back in 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuit_head View Post
It could, but a lot of people in the area where the northern arc is would much rather pay for another freeway instead of commuter rail. Not happening in a fiscally conservative area such as North Georgia. Somehow, North Texas (which is just as fiscally conservative, if not more than North Georgia) has managed to have both the HOT lanes on its freeways AND commuter rail, while North Georgia residents still fight against infrastructure that is actually needed. Atlanta needs both the HOT lanes on 285 and commuter rail.
Not only have many outer-suburban and exurban North Georgia residents along the path of the old Northern Arc traditionally not wanted to pay for commuter rail but they also have not wanted to pay for another freeway, particularly if it is to be constructed in and through their highly-cherished affluent outer-suburban communities that self-identify with the North Georgia Mountains region.
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:59 AM
 
4,413 posts, read 3,466,587 times
Reputation: 14183
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
Make 285 a bypass again. Take most of the local car traffic off of it, and have it handle the interstate travel and freight.
Not everyone who uses 285 locally can use mass transit.

Service technicians
Salespeople
Anyone with a ladder
Landscapers
Delivery drivers
etc
etc
etc

Mass transit is part of the solution. It's not THE solution. I don't want more highways either, but I'd be in favor of a tiered system where commercial traffic has priority on 285 at certain times, etc. and you need a special license or decal to use it.
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:29 AM
 
1,497 posts, read 1,517,146 times
Reputation: 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuit_head View Post
Montgomery County doesn't want to build the connection with Route 28 in Virginia.
That is astounding. I guess they just prefer sitting in that awful traffic.. and yes it is much much worse than anything Atlantans experience, and they have a much MORE extensive metro rail system and commuter rail system.. and it is still bad.. that is because the freeway infrastructure is just simply not adequate to handle the traffic of a metro that size. Commuter rail is all fine and dandy it is really not viable for commuting among suburbs.. it is fine for taking people from the outer suburbs into the inner city
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:49 AM
bu2
 
24,069 posts, read 14,859,997 times
Reputation: 12904
There's a thread on Ghiardelli Chocolates leasing 1 million sf in Henry County. This is the type of thing that can be helped by an outer perimeter. Distribution is a key industry in Atlanta and one where Atlanta has a very favorable geographic location. With land prices and congestion, it will be moving more OTP over time. Without good roads out there, Atlanta could lose much of that industry to places like Jacksonville, Nashville, Charlotte and Cincinnati.
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,849,415 times
Reputation: 5703
The ICC is just like GA 400 ITP.
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:40 AM
 
Location: DMV Area
1,296 posts, read 1,217,117 times
Reputation: 2616
Quote:
Originally Posted by AUGnative View Post
That is astounding. I guess they just prefer sitting in that awful traffic.. and yes it is much much worse than anything Atlantans experience, and they have a much MORE extensive metro rail system and commuter rail system.. and it is still bad.. that is because the freeway infrastructure is just simply not adequate to handle the traffic of a metro that size. Commuter rail is all fine and dandy it is really not viable for commuting among suburbs.. it is fine for taking people from the outer suburbs into the inner city
DC has a lot of suburb-to-suburb commuting just like Atlanta does because Northern VA has major employment centers in Tysons Corner, Reston, and Arlington County. There should be a commuter rail line that parallels the Beltway from Montgomery County in MD to Springfield in VA, and there should be rail transit along 285 from Vinings to Tucker to augment and relieve some of the congestion. However, I'm realistic enough to know that will NEVER happen in the foreseeable future.

After living in LA and experiencing the "joy" of driving The 405 there and The Beltway and I-66 here in DC, I'll NEVER complain about Atlanta's traffic again.
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Old 08-16-2017, 08:47 AM
bu2
 
24,069 posts, read 14,859,997 times
Reputation: 12904
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuit_head View Post
DC has a lot of suburb-to-suburb commuting just like Atlanta does because Northern VA has major employment centers in Tysons Corner, Reston, and Arlington County. There should be a commuter rail line that parallels the Beltway from Montgomery County in MD to Springfield in VA, and there should be rail transit along 285 from Vinings to Tucker to augment and relieve some of the congestion. However, I'm realistic enough to know that will NEVER happen in the foreseeable future.

After living in LA and experiencing the "joy" of driving The 405 there and The Beltway and I-66 here in DC, I'll NEVER complain about Atlanta's traffic again.
I haven't lived in DC or LA, but I've been there enough to understand. Of course, I feel the same way about Atlanta and Houston. I've sworn to never complain about Houston traffic again after experiencing Atlanta.
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Old 08-18-2017, 04:04 PM
 
11,774 posts, read 7,986,237 times
Reputation: 9925
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasel View Post
Not everyone who uses 285 locally can use mass transit.

Service technicians
Salespeople
Anyone with a ladder
Landscapers
Delivery drivers
etc
etc
etc

Mass transit is part of the solution. It's not THE solution. I don't want more highways either, but I'd be in favor of a tiered system where commercial traffic has priority on 285 at certain times, etc. and you need a special license or decal to use it.
Do you have any idea as to how much damage this would do to places like Smyrna, Marietta, Sandy Springs, Dunwood, North Dekalb? It would absolutely murder those areas, especially Dunwoody and Sandy Springs and for that matter just about everything around the metro.

That asside, there is no feasible way this could ever come to past unless the converted I-285 into a tollroad and it would ALSO lose its Interstate Badge and just become its state designation (GA-407 Toll).
The reason is, noone in their right mind is going to want to pay the gas / road tax on a Interstate that only a minority can use, thus only the traffic that actually uses it will pay for it. Infact Im pretty sure given its an Interstate, they literally CAN'T segregate the traffic on it by forcing drivers to have a specific license ect..

Also the suburban arterial streets would be buried alive in swamps of cars filled with commutes screaming in agony with no way or no hope out and they will ALL remember YOU with absolute rage!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUGnative View Post
That is astounding. I guess they just prefer sitting in that awful traffic.. and yes it is much much worse than anything Atlantans experience, and they have a much MORE extensive metro rail system and commuter rail system.. and it is still bad.. that is because the freeway infrastructure is just simply not adequate to handle the traffic of a metro that size. Commuter rail is all fine and dandy it is really not viable for commuting among suburbs.. it is fine for taking people from the outer suburbs into the inner city
I am personally of the belief that alot of these NIMBY people are people who do not drive, or don't drive enough to care about traffic, thus why they want to keep their community as rural as possible to begin with as at one time those communities were pretty far from the city centers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuit_head View Post
DC has a lot of suburb-to-suburb commuting just like Atlanta does because Northern VA has major employment centers in Tysons Corner, Reston, and Arlington County. There should be a commuter rail line that parallels the Beltway from Montgomery County in MD to Springfield in VA, and there should be rail transit along 285 from Vinings to Tucker to augment and relieve some of the congestion. However, I'm realistic enough to know that will NEVER happen in the foreseeable future.
It actually may be a bit more realistic than it sounds if MARTA ever became a federally subsidized entity I could EASILY see a subway achieving this sort of route...
I'd start in Austell near Thornton Rd with a Park and Ride Facility
Proceed into central Austell
Proceed east along the E/W Connector
Park-N-Ride facility @ S-Cobb Dr
Proceed east to Cumberland - Park-n-Ride Facility and Bus services servicing both Vinings and Cumberland Pkwy
Proceed east to Cumberland Square Station - connecting Cumberland Mall / Baseball Stadium / Park-n-Ride, future transfer point for the N.W. MARTA Rail.
Proceed east to Powers Ferry - Station and connecting bus services
Proceed east to Glenridge - Park-n-Ride, bus services
Proceed east to Perimeter - transfer between the North / South line, bus services
Proceed east to Glendridge, connections to Atlanta First Baptist, bus services, Park-n-Ride.
Proceed east to Peachtree Ind Blvd / Buford Highway - station placed between those two highways on that access frontage road that runs between them both right beside I-285 where the old GM plant used to be.
Proceed east to the North East Line, transfer point.
Proceed east to Chamblee Dunwood Rd, Park-n-ride, bus services
Proceed east to North Point Mall - Line ends..

Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuit_head View Post
After living in LA and experiencing the "joy" of driving The 405 there and The Beltway and I-66 here in DC, I'll NEVER complain about Atlanta's traffic again.
I don't know about this one man. I've been to LA a good few times and their highway network outshines Atlanta's by light years with the only thing that comes close being Houston and DFW. I've sat in LA traffic but LA traffic moves fairly decent, and there's ALOT of ways you can bypass it and most of their highways also have tolled express lanes as well. In Atlanta when traffic is moving, its cool..but when it stops? ...it STOPS.
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Old 08-18-2017, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
1,879 posts, read 1,552,401 times
Reputation: 3060
LA's traffic is something else. Anytime between 6AM and maybe 9PM is just a nightmare in the basin. I don't have too much experience with traffic in Atlanta. A couple of years ago we had the misfortune of driving through Atlanta on our way to Florida at 3PM through 6PM on a Good Friday that was early enough to coincide with Spring Break traffic. Besides that, I've encountered moderate to heavy traffic while in Atlanta on business. I've been monitoring traffic on Apple maps, and it really looks like the worst areas are along the Perimeter between 75 and 85 and up those north-south freeways north of the perimeter. That tells me people are using the perimeter to get to employment centers not in intown Atlanta. I think a northern arc or maybe even a second perimeter should be built. Metro
Atlanta isn't dense enough for commuter rail. Do you really think people want to drive or take a bus to their local station and then have take a bus to their job? This isn't Chicago or New York where they have large central business districts not to mention a century more of infrastrure that have allowed commuter rail.
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