Georgia Tech student shot dead by police on campus (calculated, inspector)

[JPD]

Originally Posted by convextech

Bye Felicia!

I'm sorry I've poked a hole in your echo chamber, but it'll probably do you some good.

Trigger happy cops are the thing that increases the danger in their profession. If they could defuse situations like this without killing people, it would make them and everyone else safer, and it would increase the level of respect and trust they receive from the public, creating an upward spiral of safety and security.

[Beretta]

Emotions are running high. Take a deep breath. Read the TOS if you want to center your C-D self before you post. Let's make sure this thread stays on track. Remember to debate the issue and not each other!

[ronricks]

Originally Posted by JPD

I'm sorry I've poked a hole in your echo chamber, but it'll probably do you some good.

Trigger happy cops are the thing that increases the danger in their profession. If they could defuse situations like this without killing people, it would make them and everyone else safer.

It is like you can't understand that They called the cops and said someone had a gun when they didn't. You have to take that as a serious issue. They caused this whole issue wanting the result that happened. This was planned out and it wasn't by the police.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by ronricks

It is like you can't understand that They called the cops and said someone had a gun when they didn't. You have to take that as a serious issue. They caused this whole issue wanting the result that happened. This was planned out and it wasn't by the police.

None of that matters, for several reasons.

1. The police did take the call seriously. That's obvious and not open for debate.
2. The police are not a place your suicide order by phone service.
3. Police are trained to arrive at a call and assess a situation. Then they are supposed to respond appropriately, causing as little harm as possible.
4. Just because someone wants to die doesn't make it OK for the police to kill them (see my jumper scenario).

[ronricks]

Originally Posted by JPD

None of that matters, for several reasons.

1. The police did take the call seriously. That's obvious and not open for debate.
2. The police are not a place your suicide order by phone service.
3. Police are trained to arrive at a call and assess a situation. Then they are supposed to respond appropriately, causing as little harm as possible.
4. Just because someone wants to die doesn't make it OK for the police to kill them (see my jumper scenario).

This wouldn't have even been a possibility if it wasn't planned out by They.

Nobody has said it is OK or legal for the police to just shoot people.

They put innocent people at risk because of a previous failed suicide attempt. That is extremely selfish and dangerous. If you want to die just kill yourself and don't bring innocent people (citizens and police officers) into the mix like this idiot did.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by ronricks

If you want to die just kill yourself and don't bring innocent people (citizens and police officers) into the mix like this idiot did.

On that, we agree.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Take a look at the videos I posted above. Several instances of the cops handling a very aggressive knife wielder without shooting the guy dead. And there are many other examples, too.

//www.city-data.com/forum/49558696-post98.html

As I previously pointed out to this same post. The inverse of these videos is true too. You can point out past examples all day long and create any list of maybes/if-thens you want, but none of them are an 'always.'

The police were initially doing many of these things, like backing away. You can only back away so many times before you start putting the situation in a more dangerous position.

As I also discussed, I too, examined the internet for examples (albeit through news articles) of suicide attempts and I found a mixed bag.

When someone creates a very dangerous situation for themselves and officers, the cards don't always fall into the lucky position that leads to a positive outcome.

They are also all not the exact situation that occurred at GT.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

As I previously pointed out to this same post. The inverse of these videos is true too. You can point out past examples all day long and create any list of maybes/if-thens you want, but none of them are an 'always.'

The police were initially doing many of these things, like backing away. You can only back away so many times before you start putting the situation in a more dangerous position.

As I also discussed, I too, examined the internet for examples (albeit through news articles) of suicide attempts and I found a mixed bag.

When someone creates a very dangerous situation for themselves and officers, the cards don't always fall into the lucky position that leads to a positive outcome.

They are also all not the exact situation that occurred at GT.

I haven't suggested that any of these situations are exactly the same.

However, we know for a fact that there are often a number of ways of bringing down a person with a knife, short of shooting them dead. It's been done many times and these (and other videos) show that to be the case. It takes skill, training, teamwork, the right equipment, understanding and bravery.

Will these methods "always" work? Of course not. However, shooting somebody dead is a guaranteed negative (and final) outcome, and it should be the last resort.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I haven't suggested that any of these situations are exactly the same.

However, we know for a fact that there are often a number of ways of bringing down a person with a knife, short of shooting them dead. It's been done many times and these (and other videos) show that to be the case. It takes skill, training, teamwork, the right equipment, understanding and bravery.

Will these methods "always" work? Of course not. However, shooting somebody dead is a guaranteed negative (and final) outcome, and it should be the last resort.

But that is the point Arjay... they always require certain things... certain situations...

ie. this was not a formal border crossing where there was an abundance of people, supplies, and a custom engineered environment to give control agents an upperhand.

These were cops, 3, that had to rush to a scene, wherever the incident happened to be occurring. The guy was continually walking at the cops with a weapon. The cops had been backing up. He did have a life-threatening weapon and the guy was not showing signs of stopping.

So yes... there are other ways and we can show incidents of single situations where things fell into place just right, but that doesn't mean it is always like that. It was a very dangerous situation all around and your number of other ways are not always usable and not always foolproof.

As I mentioned before most examples of where a taser was used the person was still in a stand off, not actively pursuing the police. Two articles I found the tasers failed in the same situation. These things are not foolproof. Sometimes good things can happen and those opportunities should be taken when possible, but that doesn't mean these things at a moments notice area always going to be possible or work.

The problem with these situations if they are always 'iffy.' Ultimately, as tragic as it is, it is the suicidal individual creating the dangerous iffy situation and not the police. We can't blame the police for that.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

But that is the point Arjay... they always require certain things... certain situations...

ie. this was not a formal border crossing where there was an abundance of people, supplies, and a custom engineered environment to give control agents an upperhand.

These were cops, 3, that had to rush to a scene, wherever the incident happened to be occurring. The guy was continually walking at the cops with a weapon. The cops had been backing up. He did have a life-threatening weapon and the guy was not showing signs of stopping.

So yes... there are other ways and we can show incidents of single situations where things fell into place just right, but that doesn't mean it is always like that. It was a very dangerous situation all around and your number of other ways are not always usable and not always foolproof.

As I mentioned before most examples of where a taser was used the person was still in a stand off, not actively pursuing the police. Two articles I found the tasers failed in the same situation. These things are not foolproof. Sometimes good things can happen and those opportunities should be taken when possible, but that doesn't mean these things at a moments notice area always going to be possible or work.

The problem with these situations if they are always 'iffy.' Ultimately, as tragic as it is, it is the suicidal individual creating the dangerous iffy situation and not the police. We can't blame the police for that.

And shooting in the body isn't necessarily fatal. A leg shot can be fatal. People can quickly bleed to death if the artery in their thigh gets hit by a bullet (or knife). You're being pretty casual about police taking risks with their own lives against someone who is threatening them.