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- do something about the trucks. Seems like there's 1 truck for every 2 cars. Bypass or separate them, etc.
- Toll all lanes of certain highways during certain times of day except for commuters. Employers give out the Peach Passes.
- If not toll all lanes, then toll most. Let the commuters move free while the people running errands can sit and wait in the 1-2 free lanes.
- More literal affordable housing.
- Expand transit. Do the Chicago/DC model. MARTA for denser areas closer to town, commuter rail connected to it for people coming in from the burbs and exurbs.
- Encourage more telecommuting and encourage an end to the 9-5, just do it already. Give incentives so companies will actually do it.
- Create more job clusters. The northern arc is top heavy, spread the wealth. Get more jobs going into Clayton, Gwinnett, Douglas, Forsyth, etc.
- Promote more carsharing and come up with some regional shuttle service or something.
- Reduce parking. I'd tear down garages and rebuild them with pedestrian friendly developments that include parking - but less than before.
- Redo the funky intersections, upgrade the signage, and fix the potholes.
- Double deck the Connector and have 75 traffic on the bottom and 85 on top so they never merge or meet. Or tunnel it. Let the tunnel portion be for thru traffic only and top commuting traffic only.
- Get rid of some exits. The Connector has way too many in my opinion. There are 14(!) exits from 246-250 on the Connector. I would close most of them, and maybe even disconnect Freedom Parkway from it. Make the Connector more free flowing. I-20 downtown also has a glut of exits imo.
I think induced demand is one of the most misused concepts out there.
All it really means is people find other routes, other times, other jobs or places to live. They drive on Lawrenceville Hwy instead of I-85. They make that trip to Home Depot at 10 instead of 8:30. They switch to a job closer to home. They move to the other side of town and add to traffic on those roads.
Sure, a few extra people ride transit or car pool. Some people combine trips. But its really insignificant in the scheme of things.
If you have a city growing, those roads will fill up. Duh!!! If you have a city like Buffalo or Cleveland, the only way they fill up is if roads on the other side of town empty out.
That is a great point about people finding and using other routes as alternatives to traveling on busy freeway routes like Interstate 85 as the area's population has continued to grow and filled up the freeway system.
That is also a great point that roads will fill up if a city/metro like Atlanta is growing.
Though in the classic sense of the theory of Induced Demand (that basically theorizes that the building of bigger roads to accommodate growing amounts of existing traffic actually attracts even more traffic than a road or roads might otherwise if they were not expanded), the theory seems to apply well to Atlanta's metropolitan arterial road network, particularly to the freeway system.
The massive expansion of much of Atlanta's metropolitan freeway system back in the 1980's as a means of attempting to have the freeway system accommodate growing volumes of traffic particularly seems to be a textbook case of Induced Demand.
Atlanta's freeway system was massively expanded back during the entire decade of the 1980's because of worsening traffic congestion in a region that was home to about 2 million people back in the mid-late 1970's.
But just the national news of the massive reconstruction and expansion of Atlanta's freeway system and how much more traffic the system would be able (intended) to accommodate after the completion of the "Freeing-the-Freeways" project helped to attract much more industry and economic activity to the Atlanta region (and many more people and much more traffic to Atlanta's metropolitan road network).
And it was the news of the massive expansion of Atlanta's metropolitan freeway network as well as the act of the near-completion of the massive expansion of Atlanta's metropolitan freeway network that (along with a then still-expanding MARTA Heavy Rail Transit network and a new and massively expanded airport terminal) in 1990 won Atlanta the right to host the 1996 Summer Olympic games... An event that helped Atlanta to attract even that much more industry, that much more economic activity and that many more people and that much more traffic to the Atlanta region.
In a macro sense, the massive expansion of Atlanta's metropolitan freeway system back in and through most of the entire decade of the 1980's appeared to be a textbook case of Induced Demand... That's because Atlanta's metropolitan freeway system maybe would not have attracted anywhere near the amount of additional traffic (additional traffic generated by an increased amount of industry, economic activity and people) without being massively expanded.
Atlanta's metropolitan freeway network likely still would have attracted a fairly robust amount of additional traffic without the massive "Freeing-the-Freeways" expansion of the 1980's, but probably nothing near the exponentially escalating amount of traffic that Atlanta's metropolitan freeway network has attracted since the early 1980's because of the massive freeway system expansion.
- do something about the trucks. Seems like there's 1 truck for every 2 cars. Bypass or separate them, etc.
This comment raises a very important point that the Atlanta metro region is a major (massive) hub for trucking operations and truck traffic-generating warehousing, distribution and logistical operations for the Southeastern North American continent.
Much of the truck traffic that we see on Atlanta area Interstates is pass-through truck traffic that is passing through the Atlanta area to points north, south, east and west.
But much of the truck traffic that we see on Atlanta area Interstates also is truck traffic that originating and terminating in the Atlanta metro area itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5
- Encourage more telecommuting and encourage an end to the 9-5, just do it already. Give incentives so companies will actually do it.
Like was expressed before, the Atlanta region actually does a pretty good job of fostering a business culture where telecommuting and flex work scheduling is strongly encouraged and frequently practiced.
The robust use of telecommuting and flex work scheduling as a means of attempting to reduce the intensity of traffic congestion on the roads during peak hours by both the public and private sectors is a major reason why traffic congestion is not even worse than it already is during morning and afternoon/evening rush hours.
The relatively widespread use of flex work scheduling by both the public and private business sectors is a major reason why heavy traffic congestion spreads out between the hours of 6am to as late as 10-11am in the morning and between the hours of about 2pm to as late as 7-8pm in the afternoons/evenings instead of only largely concentrating with much worse intensity between the hours of 6-9am in the mornings and 3-6pm in the evenings.
One major problem is that telecommuting and flex work scheduling both can be utilized only so much in the context of a typical work day where there continues to be many business and industrial sectors that either choose to or have to operate within the structure of a traditional 8am-5pm workday.
Another major problem is that telecommuting and flex work scheduling also can only go so far into helping to lessen traffic congestion in a large major metro region of 6.5 million with a severely constricted multimodal (road and transit) transportation network like Atlanta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5
- Create more job clusters. The northern arc is top heavy, spread the wealth. Get more jobs going into Clayton, Gwinnett, Douglas, Forsyth, etc.
Creating more job clusters and spreading out the impact of peak-hour and rush-hour commuting is a good idea.
The creation of more job clusters also is an idea which has and is already being executed, not necessarily by regional planners but by the free market.
There are actually some pretty large clusters of industrial properties in the College Park, Mountain View, Forest Park, Morrow and Ellenwood areas of Clayton County... Not to mention that Clayton County is already home to one of the largest centers of employment and business activity in the entire Southeastern U.S. at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.
Gwinnett County also features some pretty large clusters of business activity and employment in the Norcross, Peachtree Corners, Duluth, Lawrenceville, Suwanee and Buford.
Forsyth County features a growing cluster of business activity and employment along the Georgia 400 and Georgia 9 corridors in South Forsyth County.
And Douglas County (while it may not necessarily feature the amount of business activity that other metro Atlanta counties have) has a rather sizable cluster of business activity and employment in the Lithia Springs area and a smaller business activity/employment cluster in the Douglasville area.
Douglas County has also had some big economic wins lately with the county being awarded a new Google data processing center earlier this year and being the site of a newly-opened Amazon fulfillment center for West Metro Atlanta in the Lithia Springs area... An area that is part of a pre-existing cluster of business activity and employment in eastern Douglas, South Cobb and Southwest Fulton counties that is anchored by the Fulton Industrial Boulevard corridor.
There are also notable clusters of business activity and employment along the I-20 East corridor through South DeKalb, Rockdale and Newton counties, the I-75 South corridor in the McDonough area of Henry County and along the I-85 Southwest corridor in South Fulton and Coweta counties.
There is also the matter of metro Atlanta's and Georgia's booming/exploding Television and Film production industry which seems to be thriving throughout much of metro Atlanta's Southern Crescent with clusters of activity in South Fulton, Fayette and Coweta counties.
Exurban Northside counties like Bartow, Hall and Jackson also feature large clusters of business activity and employment.
The jobs appear to be spreading out into other parts of the Atlanta metro region.
But even with jobs spreading out into other parts of the Atlanta metro region along and below the I-20 corridor there will always be a massive concentration of business activity and employment north of Interstate 20. That's because of the free market's preferences to be near existing centers of business, finance and education in Central Atlanta (Downtown, Midtown and Buckhead) as well as near sources of water supply, recreational, leisure and scenic amenities in manmade lakes Lanier and Allatoona and the North Georgia Mountains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5
- Promote more carsharing and come up with some regional shuttle service or something.
Like in most large major metro regions as a whole in this era of increasingly popular urbanism, ridesharing is on the rise in the Atlanta metro area, particularly through the use of ridesharing services like Uber and Lyft.
But even with the rise in the popularity of ridesharing services like Uber and Lyft, Jandrew5 makes an great point that ridesharing (carpooling, vanpooling, etc) is still something that the Atlanta area could improve upon.
Though efforts to increase ridesharing through private vehicular pools will always be complicated by the very spread out nature of metro Atlanta's dispersed job market that was alluded to earlier.
While a dispersed job market can help to spread out the impact of peak-hour and rush-hour commuting over a larger geographical area, a dispersed job market can also complicate efforts to increase ridesharing and transit use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5
- Double deck the Connector and have 75 traffic on the bottom and 85 on top so they never merge or meet. Or tunnel it. Let the tunnel portion be for thru traffic only and top commuting traffic only.
The idea of double-decking and/or tunneling through traffic under the Downtown Connector has been floated by multiple libertarian think tanks.
The challenge with this idea is that the cost (which would be in the multiple billions of dollars) makes the idea of double-decking or tunneling the Downtown Connector a non-starter politically. That's because of the public pushback that such an idea would get because of public anger (especially within the I-285 Perimeter and Intown Atlanta areas) over the act of spending so much money on further expanding the I-75/I-85 roadway instead of spending the money on transit expansion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5
- Get rid of some exits. The Connector has way too many in my opinion. There are 14(!) exits from 246-250 on the Connector. I would close most of them, and maybe even disconnect Freedom Parkway from it. Make the Connector more free flowing. I-20 downtown also has a glut of exits imo.
The idea of eliminating some exit and entrance ramps along the stretch of the Downtown Connector between exits 246 and 250 has actually been seriously examined by GDOT (Georgia Department of Transportation).
The problem was that GDOT seemed to get some pushback by both the City of Atlanta and some Downtown neighborhoods over concerns that eliminating those on and off ramps would make traffic worse on local streets getting to and from the fewer on and off ramps that were still open.
Another major problem was that a major road like the I-75/I-85 Downtown Connector is not just a highway for commuters and through traffic, but that a major road like the Downtown Connector is also a major central arterial road that is a massive economic generator for Downtown Atlanta.
There were understandable concerns that important economic activity might be crimped if some important ramps to and from a Downtown Connector urban Interstate superhighway that serves as a critical link in the distribution and supply chain of many local businesses (both large and small) and also provides a critical road logistical link to and from the world-leading Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.
(...The ramps in particular to and from Freedom Parkway (a road which is officially a state-maintained roadway that is officially signed and designated as Georgia State Route 10) serve as critically important logistical links between near-Northeast Intown Atlanta (including the Carter Center, the Fernbank Museum of Natural History and the Emory University area) and important points south like the aforementioned Atlanta Airport.)
Those existing on and off ramps along the Downtown Connector between exits 246 and 250 also serve as critical road transportation links to and from important locations like:
> Grady Memorial Hospital...
> Emory Midtown Hospital (old Crawford Long Hospital)...
> Atlanta Medical Center...
> Children's Healthcare of Atlanta at Hughes Spalding (children's hospital)...
> the Dr. Martin Luther King National Historical Site/King Center...
> the Georgia State Capitol and the Georgia state government office complex...
> Atlanta City Hall and Atlanta city courts and government offices...
> Fulton County Courthouse and government offices...
> the Downtown Hotel District...
> Georgia State University...
> Atlanta Police Department Headquarters...
> numerous important Federal government facilities, courts and offices, etc.
We have to be extremely careful before closing down freeway ramps that actually provide much critical access to and from some very important public functions.
...Which is probably why shutting down existing ramps to and from the Downtown Connector through Downtown Atlanta might not necessarily be as good of an idea as it might seem at first thought.
What evidence supports your claim that Metro Atlanta companies embrace telecommuting and flex work? I ask because in my experience this is not true.
ETA: I speak of my personal encounters with ATL employers and everyone I know who is employed here.
I saw a USA Today article a few years back showing Atlanta had 7% of its population telecommuting. Mass transit was only 4%. I do know at least a couple of companies that are fine with telecommuting.
I saw a USA Today article a few years back showing Atlanta had 7% of its population telecommuting. Mass transit was only 4%. I do know at least a couple of companies that are fine with telecommuting.
Was that supposed to be an impressive level because I am not impressed. LOL.
Commuting can have a deleterious effect on lifestyle and quality of life. I've been presented with several opportunities since we've been here, but I could not accept, given the realities of commuting and being married to someone who already has to deal with a crazy office-based culture. Plus, we have children, and I don't think they can raise themselves. That is one of the main reasons why I have been self-employed since coming to Metro ATL.
BTW, we both work in industries/roles where our jobs could be performed 100 percent remote; if not 75 for the sake of a bit of presenteeism.
If my husband cannot find a work culture or role that allows for telecommuting, or a job closer to our house, I could foresee us relocating in a bit.
I am about 200% certain that if everyone had the choice to find a good job that meets their financial and work/life needs 6 minutes from home every-time they were in the market that they would. I am not sure why people keep throwing that out like your picking grocery stores ( and some areas don't even have many of those).
I saw a USA Today article a few years back showing Atlanta had 7% of its population telecommuting. Mass transit was only 4%. I do know at least a couple of companies that are fine with telecommuting.
In 2014, 88.3% of metro (as the census defines it) commuters drove to work, with an overwhelming 77.6% of those driving alone. By contrast, only 3.2% of commuters used public transit, 1.3% walked, 0.2% biked, 1.4% used a taxi, and 5.7% worked at home.
Then again, keep in mind that the there are approximately 20,500 miles of roadway within the Atlanta metro. Of these, 1.7% are Interstates / Freeways, 2.8% are Principal Arterials, 9.0% are Minor Arterials, 9.6% are Collectors, and 76.9% are local streets. In contrast, there are 575 miles of traffic-segregated bike facilities, 2 miles of bus only lanes, and roughly 50 miles of rail transit in the metro.
Even if you consider mixed-traffic buses, only 55% of the jobs, and 31% of residents in the 10-county metro are within half a mile of any kind of transit. That includes commuter and once-an-hour buses. The stats are even lower when considering the 20-county metro, or the census-defined metro.
This isn't a "rant against Atlanta" thread..but more less.. something (obvious) that I've been noticing getting worse and worse and its coming to a point where its becoming unbearable. I live in Gwinnett and every day, regardless of the hour unless its between 9pm and 5am, I-85 WILL be backed up in atleast one direction.. EVEN ON THE WEEKENDS, Sunday afternoons I come down the ramps for 316 into I-85 south and its a parking lot..unreal..
Sounds like I-95 through Northern Virginia, except it could literally be anytime.
Sounds like I-95 through Northern Virginia, except it could literally be anytime.
Admittedly I can't disagree with this.. I hate going up that way.
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