Georgia DOT: Building free lanes won’t solve metro Atlanta’s traffic mess (Buford: live in, buses)

[jsvh]

The Highway Trust Fund is having insolvency issues already and pure electric cars are seeing rapid increases in adoption.

Even the most conservative projections have gas cars being in the minority in the 30 to 50 year timeline we are talking about.

The existing fuel tax funding structure for highways cannot continue to function. Period.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by jsvh

The Highway Trust Fund is having insolvency issues already and pure electric cars are seeing rapid increases in adoption.

Even the most conservative projections have gas cars being in the minority in the 30 to 50 year timeline we are talking about.

The existing fuel tax funding structure for highways cannot continue to function. Period.

Fair enough, I do agree that electric cars will take over the tide in the not so distant future.. hard to say if Gas cars will be a minority or not this soon, especially when there is yet to be an electric car that can fully match a gasoline's car range... (300 miles is not enough, I can go almost 600 in my Camaro without stopping for gas, no exaggeration.) ...and charging stations that can recharge a vehicle fairly quickly.


However, I'm not so sure that this new power source will go untaxed, especially at charging stations themselves. You know, the enitre Interstate System makes up less than 1% of the nations road system in general, they just happen to carry the majority of inter-regional traffic. But even if they tolled all of them, what about the rest of the federal and also state highways?

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

However, I'm not so sure that this new power source will go untaxed, especially at charging stations themselves. You know, the enitre Interstate System makes up less than 1% of the nations road system in general, they just happen to carry the majority of inter-regional traffic. But even if they tolled all of them, what about the rest of the federal and also state highways?

Ideally, any regional transportation system would get electronic tolling, which might be the way things go if autonomous taxis are adopted as quick as expected. The "tolls" / per-use-road-taxes will just be added to your Uber receipt.

But it is probably more likely that in the near future we see start to see non-limited access highways getting bailed-out more and more with things like property taxes & sales taxes until they either finally get transitioned to e-tolls or transformed into more local roads.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by jsvh

But it is probably more likely that in the near future we see start to see non-limited access highways getting bailed-out more and more with things like property taxes & sales taxes until they either finally get transitioned to e-tolls or transformed into more local roads.

So, do you envision some point in which all 4 million miles of road in the US are somehow e-tolled? Is it one large national company that would handle this, or hundreds of small companies all splitting up various areas? Would I need to have an account with each one of those providers depending on where I drive?

[jsvh]

Ubiquitous electronic tolling will go hand and hand with how ubiquitous autonomous taxis are. It will just be added to you bill and Uber (or whatever company) would pay to government. No need for separate tolling companies.

But until autonomous taxis are ubiquitous, expect tolling to just find an ever growing role on limited access road ways and other surface streets shift more towards local design, funding, and usage.

[magnetar]

Aren't free interstate highways kind of un-american anyway? Don't we hate the idea of government-paid benefits for the public? We're all about personal responsibility, right? I mean, personally, I'd love to see MARTA become free to ride, but I presume that those who believe we should charge a fee for public transportation would also insist that people pay for the privilege of driving on well-maintained public roads. There's a fuel tax, sure, but we know those dastardly Tesla owners can get around that. Why not subject our highway system to the whims of the free market?

[jsvh]

Freeways are the Soviet bread line solution to transportation.

We should not be surprised their is a continuous shortage and failures.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by magnetar

Why not subject our highway system to the whims of the free market?

Well, the government owns the roads. There's no competitors, or choices. Therefore it will never be even remotely a free market, even with tolls everywhere.

Some libertarians/conservatives are against tolls, seeing it as double taxation. And in most cases, they're not wrong. Like if the state government builds a road with your taxes, then charges you a toll to use it, then uses that toll money for something else (instead of paying you back the taxes that it cost you to build the road.)

Which is a concern we could address by permanently getting rid of all taxes to fund all transportation (cars or otherwise), and move completely towards usage fee/toll/fare, for everything.

[magnetar]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Which is a concern we could address by permanently getting rid of all taxes to fund all transportation (cars or otherwise), and move completely towards usage fee/toll/fare, for everything.

Sounds like you're saying that MARTA should be free to ride, and I'd agree with that sentiment. I think there are those who disagree, though, and there seems to be some cognitive dissonance there when many of those people believe that they have a constitutional right to traffic-free highways.

[primaltech]

As I've stated earlier in this thread, my position is that roads and mass transit should be 1:1 everything.

Equal taxes collected, equal taxes spent. Plus a fare for using each. I would even argue the fare should be equal: $2.50 to get on a MARTA train, $2.50 to get on the expressway.

I think how it's communicated is the key to avoiding the whole 'double taxation' thing, and how some people feel that way about toll lanes. With MARTA, it's clear and upfront- it's clear that funding for it comes from a combo of taxes, fare, and advertisements. (Mostly taxes.)

Roads could be as clear- the message to the public could be that the tolls are saving them tax money. Like for example, "Because of the toll, it only cost the tax payer half to build these roads that it would have."