The Vibrancy Problem (Atlanta, Lenox, Buckhead: move, rail, design)

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Even inner-suburban neighborhoods like Vinings have seen rapidly rising home values and rents, because they are also desirable because of location, even if car-dependent. Almost anything within a few miles proximate of the core areas of the city either already is or will soon be on fire. This proves our point that mostly lower-mid density, mostly car-dependent Atlanta and its inner metro, is a highly attractive and desirable place.

Atlanta should simply strive to be an improved version of itself. Not to be like any other city.

Being "an improved version of itself" will necessarily entail implementing what other cities have done well, such as improving connectivity, increasing overall density, etc.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Even inner-suburban neighborhoods like Vinings have seen rapidly rising home values and rents, because they are also desirable because of location, even if car-dependent. Almost anything within a few miles proximate of the core areas of the city either already is or will soon be on fire. This proves our point that mostly lower-mid density, mostly car-dependent Atlanta and its inner metro, is a highly attractive and desirable place.

Atlanta should simply strive to be an improved version of itself. Not to be like any other city.

Have you read the Atlanta City Design? That's exactly what Keane and Gravel propose doing. Our historic, intown, streetcar suburbs will not be torn down for blocks of medium density (but will continue to see infill development). They refer to these areas as Conservation Areas.
Instead, the propose focusing development along underdeveloped corridors and areas. What they refer to as Growth Areas.
The Atlanta City Design: Aspiring to the Beloved Community

[primaltech]

Yes I have read it and I agree with the vision.

And yes, Mutiny, that's what I meant. Improved connectivity (transit) between these denser areas across the metro, and a general increase in density, particularly around transit. But not like, oh look how vibrant Downtown Philadelphia is- we should be like that. No we should not be anything like those northern cities, because then we wouldn't stand out as an alternative or a unique place. Atlanta's draws and charms are in the fact that is much less dense and much more suburban and quieter, with more trees and country roads. And therefore largely car-dependent.

[AUGnative]

Atlanta has never been a pedestrian oriented.. at least not since the automobile. The entire layout of the city is designed around automobiles not pedestrians..The downtown connector cuts the urban core in half, lack of sidewalks also dont help and where sidewalks do exist they are often in poor condition.

Atlanta is much like LA in that most people drive everywhere. Almost everyone has a car and it realy is a necessity to have access to a car to get around and function. Now yes there are small pockets here and there.. neighborhoods that are pedestrian oriented.. mostly the older intown neighborhoods... but it is a hodgepodge.
I think The successful beltline is helping in making Atlanta more pedestrian and bike friendly by connecting these pockets together..
Also, the Big Stitch wil be a big help to make downtown and midtown more pedestrian friendly.

[DavePa]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Yes I have read it and I agree with the vision.

And yes, Mutiny, that's what I meant. Improved connectivity (transit) between these denser areas across the metro, and a general increase in density, particularly around transit. But not like, oh look how vibrant Downtown Philadelphia is- we should be like that. No we should not be anything like those northern cities, because then we wouldn't stand out as an alternative or a unique place. Atlanta's draws and charms are in the fact that is much less dense and much more suburban and quieter, with more trees and country roads. And therefore largely car-dependent.

It should be noted that NYC is in a class of urbanism and density in a larger scale ..... by itself. Philly is sort of too in its tight-knit 60+% a attached Row-home city on narrow and even alley-size streets. No one would say Atlanta would build that and Atlanta has NO street-grid anyway. Philly had the first planned one that is basically its core today. Only because of its far northwest and north regions as neighborhoods in a forest isn't Philly's attached home % higher and it doesn't include double-homes as two half's attached then a gap.

But many Northern cities more Urban. Have quiet neighborhoods between main streets too. I lived in Chicago for a few years? Its street-grid has 8-blocks to a mile between main streets where the businesses and retail are. So between are tree-lined streets with tight-knit housing set-back with green-frontage. There it is quiet away from these main streets and added diagonal streets adding more options mostly on its northside. Other cities of course have examples too of quiet hoods and busy corridors walkable to shop too .... if you so chose. Owning cars to GET TO WORK is where the NEED ON is MOST.

Manhattan especially is in its own everywhere is noise level. Other cities may have busy cores ..... but their neighborhoods are quiet as Atlanta's. Just many still have homes more tight-knit that you will have business to shopping in a walking distance a couple blocks away if so you choose to walk.

The most Atlanta will get is Urban-lite like Houston's inner-loop where older ranch- homes on large lots. Give way to ALL Mew infill mere close-knit and much multi-residential too. But new areas in the Metro need to plan a tighter housing grid if it isn't going to be called sprawl......

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Yes I have read it and I agree with the vision.

And yes, Mutiny, that's what I meant. Improved connectivity (transit) between these denser areas across the metro, and a general increase in density, particularly around transit. But not like, oh look how vibrant Downtown Philadelphia is- we should be like that. No we should not be anything like those northern cities, because then we wouldn't stand out as an alternative or a unique place. Atlanta's draws and charms are in the fact that is much less dense and much more suburban and quieter, with more trees and country roads. And therefore largely car-dependent.

It's impossible for Atlanta to copy itself after a Northern city because that wasn't the era in which it was built. Like, literally impossible.

But the Fairlie-Poplar district is like a little slice of Center City Philly in Atlanta--due to the era in which it was built.

[AUGnative]

I would actually hate to see Atlanta to go too far in the other direction and become overly dense. I would not want to see it become like Manhattan. Part of the appeal of Atlanta is its "City in a forest" character and that it is still fairly affordable for a large city.
That being said there is always room for improvement. Add and improve sidewalks. More bikelines.. when building skyscrapers have street scale retail and restaurants right on the sidewalk... there are too many island skyscrapers in midtown that have no interaction with the streets around them. I think that is the main reason for the lack of noticeable pedestrian activity for such a large city. But the areas of midtown around the park have much more pedestrian activity.
I think the Big Stitch will really help make midtown and downtown more appealing to pedestrians

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by AUGnative

I would actually hate to see Atlanta to go too far in the other direction and become overly dense. I would not want to see it become like Manhattan. Part of the appeal of Atlanta is its "City in a forest" character and that it is still fairly affordable for a large city.
That being said there is always room for improvement. Add and improve sidewalks. More bikelines.. when building skyscrapers have street scale retail and restaurants right on the sidewalk... there are too many island skyscrapers in midtown that have no interaction with the streets around them. I think that is the main reason for the lack of noticeable pedestrian activity for such a large city. But the areas of midtown around the park have much more pedestrian activity.
I think the Big Stitch will really help make midtown and downtown more appealing to pedestrians

Like concentrating density and multi-story projects on under-used MARTA surface parking lots?

[AUGnative]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Like concentrating density and multi-story projects on under-used MARTA surface parking lots?

absolutely.. high density should be concentrated around Marta stations going along a corridor. there is still alot of room there.. a good example that comes to mind are the urban villages in Arlington, VA.
https://www.carfreediet.com/urban-villages/

https://www.arlingtoneconomicdevelop...rban-villages/

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Like concentrating density and multi-story projects on under-used MARTA surface parking lots?

That is exactly where it should start. Downtown's seas of parking lots, Midtown's empty lots, and undeveloped or underdeveloped areas right at MARTA stations. I would also extend that to ex-industrial or nearly-condemned parts of the city near rail transit or on major arterial roads. This would be for higher-density development.

Then areas along minor arterial roads which are currently undeveloped or nearly-condemned would be prime for more residential-style medium-density development. A prime example of this, which I drive down nearly daily, is Joseph E. Lowery between Hollowell and MLK. Driving down that road is like driving through Detroit.