Gulch Development Site Plan (Atlanta, Doraville: to move, authority, transport)

[primaltech]

They'd have to buy up the cement factory, and the vacant lot to the west of it, touching the creek.

Then there would be room for more tracks, platforms, and different approach angles, coming not just from N/S, but also the Beltline corridor on both sides, as well as the Clifton corridor.

I can envision an Armour hub for HRT (infill), CRT (at least the lines coming from the north suburbs- with other lines using East Point, Avondale, etc), and LRT (East Beltline, plus a MARTA 'Purple Line' from Moores Mill to Avondale via Emory, that could also maybe eventually go to Cumberland.)

Some of you naysayers need to use your imagination a bit. The Gulch is not the be-all end-all of regional connectivity.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by primaltech

They'd have to buy up the cement factory, and the vacant lot to the west of it, touching the creek.

Then there would be room for more tracks, platforms, and different approach angles, coming not just from N/S, but also the Beltline corridor on both sides, as well as the Clifton corridor.

I can envision an Armour hub for HRT (infill), CRT (at least the lines coming from the north suburbs- with other lines using East Point, Avondale, etc), and LRT (East Beltline, plus a MARTA 'Purple Line' from Moores Mill to Avondale via Emory, that could also maybe eventually go to Cumberland.)

Some of you naysayers need to use your imagination a bit. The Gulch is not the be-all end-all of regional connectivity.

As I've said before, Armor is certainly a local hub. No doubt about that, but it's just not a replacement for the MMPT.

Sure it has access to the Red and Gold Lines, but it misses the Blue and Green, as well as any future expansions that make use of the various provisions built into the system.

Sure it has access to the Clifton Corridor and the BeltLine, but it misses out on being centrally located on three crosstown light rail / streetcar lines.

Sure it would have a near connection to the Buckhead to Lakewood BRT route, but it would be well and out of the way for the West Paces to Airport, Green Briar to East Lake, and I-20 East routes, all of which would either directly use the MMPT, or be within short distance to it.

Sure it would have an okay CRT connection to the planned network, but it's out of place for any Future Amtrak service, and any future in-state intercity rail, much of which would be southbound.

Sure it has access to I85 N, and near access to I75 N, for intercity and commuter buses, but it's a fair bit out of the way for anything coming in on I85 S, I-75 S, I-20 E, and I-20 W.

That's not to mention just how physically removed from the core Midtown-Downtown Central Business district it really is, without the added benefit of being in one of the other large-scale business districts.

If you try to make Armor the station, all you do is reduce service quality, and even alienate tons of important connections. It is a hub for sure, but it simply can not replace the opportunity that is the MMPT.

[jsvh]

A lot of major cities have more than one major station. I still prefer one central one in the Gulch. Seems like win-win if the state chips in additional funding to the project to secure future rights for transit underneath the project.

But primaltech is right, if it does really come down to it Armour area could server as a backup hub for the North metro (but getting NW will be tough). And the airport could serve as a hub for south metro. MARTA can fill in the connectivity between.

[primaltech]

Yeah, I mean I'm not saying that I don't want there to be an MMPT in the Gulch or that that isn't the most ideal thing, but just simply that if that doesn't happen (which it's looking not good), then we're far from dead in the water.

3 different potential regional/commuter rail lines on the south side could all use East Point as their transfer hub. That is, Jonesboro->Griffin, Peachtree City->Senoia, and Palmetto->Newnan. They could all transfer to heavy rail at East Point, with most people going north, and some going south for the airport.

A DeKalb County commuter rail line through Stone Mountain and Lithonia, out to Conyers or Covington, could use Avondale as their hub, where they can transfer to Blue or Purple lines (Emory).

Both Gwinnett County CRT lines should be able to easily use Armour.

And any lines coming in from Cobb County, could also potentially use Armour (via either the NW Beltline corridor, or new tunneling, or something), OR, they could use Five Points, in a smaller form, east of Forsyth St.

And the Amtrak station could be relocated to Armour. I don't see why not.

[jsvh]

Yeah, it gets messy and not-ideal but the gulch redevelopment without the MMPT does not mean commuter rail is impossible.

[jsvh]

...Though, if given the choice between Amazon HQ2 or MMPT appearing in the Gulch tomorrow I'd probably go with MMPT. Think that is more important for the long-term benefit of the metro. However, the MMPT plans include private development. So it seems like quite a waste to not move both possibilities forward together. Especially since the gold dome is talking up both HQ2 and metro transit funding this year.

[MattCW]

For once, I wholeheartedly agree with you, jsvh. The MMPT is far more critical to long-term growth and sustainability than another corporate office complex is. HQ2 is going to do no one any good if people can't get to and from there.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by MattCW

For once, I wholeheartedly agree with you, jsvh. The MMPT is far more critical to long-term growth and sustainability than another corporate office complex is. HQ2 is going to do no one any good if people can't get to and from there.

Especially since it's supposed to have bare minimum parking, I think I read 1/4 the usual.

That's great and all that it's going to be transit oriented, but how does that do me any good in Vinings.

Seriously, if I get a job at Amazon (which I'm certainly going to look into, as it's in my field), and there's no commuter rail to there, or some kind of half-decent connection between this area and MARTA, I'm moving.

Can't even really use the freakin' transfer station, as there's no p&r and it takes as long to walk there as it does to drive to Hamilton Holmes station.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

I mean, as I pointed out earlier, you're ignoring the fact that NYC has more than those two terminals to handle the entire transit load that you're describing.

Not nearly all of that ridership and traffic flows through the two terminals we're discussing. Nor is the MMPT even as big as the two terminals added together, who take up more land area than the MMPT would.

Those two terminals alone put through nearly a million riders every single day. Do you honestly foresee an Atlanta transit terminal doing anywhere even close to that, even 50 years from now?

And, from what I saw the two terminals were very close in size to the MMPT. Sorry...just not agreeing that our MMPT needs to be as big and sweeping, locking out that much area. If it happens, great. If it gets something built on top of it, even better. But, there needs to be a plan.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Especially since it's supposed to have bare minimum parking, I think I read 1/4 the usual.

That's great and all that it's going to be transit oriented, but how does that do me any good in Vinings.

Seriously, if I get a job at Amazon (which I'm certainly going to look into, as it's in my field), and there's no commuter rail to there, or some kind of half-decent connection between this area and MARTA, I'm moving.

Can't even really use the freakin' transfer station, as there's no p&r and it takes as long to walk there as it does to drive to Hamilton Holmes station.

But what about this //www.city-data.com/forum/50861310-post85.html?