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You have all of those issues in Atlanta as well. There isn't some magic dome once you get to the metro area that makes it a progressive utopia. Some of your most conservative voices in the state are in the metro area.
I don't follow. I was responding to your statements about African Americans' allegiance to the Democratic Party and the current divisive nature of politics. Those are general observations having nothing to do with Atlanta or Georgia specifically.
I think your earlier stats are just a lot of noise. While they do prove that Columbia has come a long way (good to hear it), they don't disprove that Athens is "tied" with Columbia (least of all behind it) on a progressive scale.
LOL, nice way to try and concede you were wrong. You simply don't know much about Columbia but you act as though you do. Just because it flies under the radar I guess you think it's just SC's version of Augusta or Columbus or Macon, but which also happens to be the capital and is home to the state's flagship university. And you. are. wrong. You're just wrong. You think you're right and you want to be right, but you're not. You're WRONG.
You may think the stats I provided are "just a lot of noise," but what they teach at UGA, USC, and other institutions of higher learning is that it is EVIDENCE--which you have not offered in support of your argument. They don't teach circular reasoning like "Gay acceptance is the yardstick for gay acceptance."
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Pride events and 3% more Trump votes over Rubio in a Republican primary are flimsy proof.
OK, I'm going to drop the sarcasm for a moment and PLEAD with you to go back and read my statements about the percentage of Republicans voting for Trump in the primary because you have really misconstrued it. Seriously, go back and read with an unbiased eye because this isn't at all what I said. I refuse to believe you're being disingenuous here.
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Anti-discrimination ordinances are more significant, but UGA and most other businesses in Clarke have had that for a while. Columbia actually requires one.
I'm guessing you don't know about the fiasco that happened not too long about regarding the anti-discrimination ordinance that was passed in Athens. Just for a second, at least TRY to be objective about this because the homerism is just getting way out of hand. I really thought you were more reasonable than this.
And I suppose places like New Orleans, NYC, DC, SF, LA, West Hollywood, etc. also require a non-discrimination ordinance. Nice try though.
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Stated otherwise, Athens-Clarke has four decades of progressivism behind it, and there's little else but progressivism left in the area. No SC metro has reached that point at all. Large swathes of metro Atlanta haven't either.
More homerism without any proof. And stop comparing the city of Athens with the entire metros of Columbia and Atlanta. Be consistent in your comparisons and stop moving the goalposts in an attempt to win.
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Columbia Scientist said (quote) "You can have the rest of Georgia. Once this state acts more progressive I might consider other places in Georgia." Followed by his quip about escaping through Hartsfield-Jackson. Athens has been a very progressive city for decades -- since the 1970s. It's not some artists' colony or time-share summer resort, but a real city. Why would Columbia Scientist not know this? No intelligent, educated person can pretend that Athens (or, recently, downtown Savannah) doesn't exist, then suggest that only Atlanta is civilized and the rest of the state can be summarily dismissed.
I don't think you get that the guy is talking about legislation and policy passed on the state level, not a local progressive atmosphere. Was his point really THAT hard to understand???
Oh yeah, and whenever you're ready to provide this evidence of all these extreme, right-wing folks and organizations in Columbia, I'll be here.
How do you feel the leadership attacks metro Atlanta?
Going back to cqholt's statement about Georgia's state political leadership continuing to attack it's economic engine in metro Atlanta in the original post on this thread, cqholt probably feels that Georgia's state political leadership attacks the state's economic engine in metro Atlanta because of such recent high-profile incidents as:
> The recent attacks on Delta Airlines (the largest private employer in the state of Georgia who is based in metro Atlanta at the state's largest and most important employment/economic hub at the Atlanta Airport) by Georgia Lt. Governor, Georgia State Senate President and 2018 Gubernatorial frontrunner Casey Cagle and the Georgia legislative Republican majority caucuses over Delta's discontinuation of discounts for NRA (National Rifle Association) members traveling to NRA conventions... Attacks by state leadership against the state's largest private employer that many feel have the potential to alienate other prospective future large-scale employers like Amazon whom is considering Atlanta along with 19 other city/metros for its second headquarters...
> The efforts to push into Georgia state law adoption legislation (that would allow adoption agencies not to let LGBTQ residents adopt children) that many people understandably view as being discriminatory against the state's LGBTQ population... Adoption legislation that also threatens to seriously alienate the state's metro Atlanta-based multibillion-dollar Television/Film Production industry were it ever to be signed into Georgia state law...
> Pledges by most leading Republican gubernatorial candidates to sign stronger and more comprehensive Religious Liberty legislation into Georgia state law that alienates both current major employers (like the metro Atlanta-based TV/Film Production industry) and prospective major employers (like Amazon, etc) along with much of the entirety of both metro Atlanta's and the state's business community...
> The very serious and high-profile push to enshrine strong Religious Liberty legislation into Georgia state law back during the 2016 legislative session of the Georgia General Assembly... A serious push that was only stopped by a high-profile veto of the highly-controversial and economically risky legislation (that would have alienated much of the entirety of metro Atlanta's and Georgia's business/corporate communities had it passed into state law) by Georgia Governor Nathan Deal.
It is very understandable how adverse legislative action against very major and very important segments of the business/corporate community in metro Atlanta could be interpreted by many as direct attacks on the state's economic engine that is metro Atlanta.
Last edited by Born 2 Roll; 04-02-2018 at 02:31 PM..
Also, the statistics that show that metro Atlanta absorbed more than 8 out of 10 newcomers to the state of Georgia over the past 7 years is not unusual at all and is actually pretty typical for states with one or more very large major metro area/regions.
In states like Illinois (that is dominated by the Chicagoland metro area/region) and New York (which, of course is dominated by the New York City metro area/region), basically all growth that occurs in those states goes to their one single very large major metro area/region (Chicago in Illinois and New York City in New York state).
The rest of Illinois outside of Chicagoland experiences virtually no growth... And in recent years with Illinois' state population actually declining in multiple years (particularly during and after the Great Recession), the rest of Illinois outside of Chicago has probably even lost population with any population gains in the state of Illinois likely going exclusively to the Chicagoland metro area/region only.
And with a city/metro like New York City being a legendary international destination worldwide, it is extraordinarily difficult for any other locale in New York state to attract any attention, particularly from an economic development standpoint.
Syracuse attracts attention because it is the site of a major university (Syracuse University) that attracts many NYC metro residents. Albany attracts attention because it is the site of the New York State Capitol, a decent-sized university (University at Albany State University of New York) that attracts many NYC metro residents and is only about 150 miles from New York City. The Adirondack Mountains region attracts some attention from affluent downstate New Yorkers and NYC metro residents who frequent the resort areas in the region. Much of the rest of New York state outside of the NYC metro tends to struggle, often mightily.
Arizona growth is dominated mostly by Phoenix and to a lesser extent by Tucson. Washington state growth is almost completely dominated by Seattle and the Puget Sound region. Massachusetts economic activity is dominated by Boston and environs.
California economic activity is dominated by Los Angeles, the Bay Area and San Diego, leaving the rest of the state to struggle for attention.
Texas' economic expansion conversations are dominated by the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex, Houston and Austin areas... Though other parts of the state (like San Antonio, El Paso, Laredo, Corpus Christi, etc) do seem to be able to remain economically competitive and viable.
Though there are some rural parts of the interior of the state that really tend to struggle, Florida's population growth and economic activity are fairly distributed somewhat evenly because of that state's status as a tourism, vacation and retirement magnet.
Overall, much of the nation and the planet as a whole is in a period when very large major metro areas are dominating economic activity and economic expansion conversations. The stats of metro Atlanta attracting 8 out of 10 Georgia newcomers appear to be reflective of those national and international trends.
When put in the perspective of what is going on around the nation and the planet, Georgia actually does pretty well in attracting growth outside of its one large singular dominant very large major metro area/region (Atlanta).
While Macon has tended to struggle to attract economic growth at times in recent years, other second-tier Georgia metros like Columbus, Warner Robins, Augusta and (especially) Savannah have done well (and even exceeding expectations) in attracting growth and staying economically competitive and viable in a state that is increasingly dominated by an economic behemoth of international importance (Atlanta) and in a time period when large major metros are overwhelmingly attracting virtually all of the economic growth internationally.
Second-tier Georgia metros like Columbus, Warner Robins, Augusta and Savannah are definitely doing significantly better than most second-tier metros in states like Illinois and New York.
Second-tier Georgia metros like Columbus, Warner Robins, Augusta and Savannah are definitely doing significantly better than most second-tier metros in states like Illinois and New York.
Which are Rust Belt metros, so I'd hope so. But they are doing worse than their peers in the Carolinas, Florida, Tennessee, etc. That should be cause for alarm.
It's one thing for these declining rural areas to be mad at Atlanta for the investment and jobs it gets. But the 2nd tier metros do have a case to make there but I don't get the sense that they harbor any animosity towards Atlanta, which is ultimately a good thing but legislators from those metros need to form a coalition and shake some tables. As a matter of fact, significant investment in the 2nd tier metros would be a much better way to get some of these rural areas back in the game. For some of them, their only hope for survival is to become exurbs of a healthy, growing metro or to at least be within relatively close proximity to dynamic job market. Get the 2nd tier metros in the game, and you'll more of rural Georgia in the game as well.
Which are Rust Belt metros, so I'd hope so. But they are doing worse than their peers in the Carolinas, Florida, Tennessee, etc. That should be cause for alarm.
It's one thing for these declining rural areas to be mad at Atlanta for the investment and jobs it gets. But the 2nd tier metros do have a case to make there but I don't get the sense that they harbor any animosity towards Atlanta, which is ultimately a good thing but legislators from those metros need to form a coalition and shake some tables. As a matter of fact, significant investment in the 2nd tier metros would be a much better way to get some of these rural areas back in the game. For some of them, their only hope for survival is to become exurbs of a healthy, growing metro or to at least be within relatively close proximity to dynamic job market. Get the 2nd tier metros in the game, and you'll more of rural Georgia in the game as well.
Over the years, that has more or less happened just outside of Savannah in neighboring Bulloch County/Statesboro. The presence of Georgia Southern has had a lot to do with it, but having Savannah as its neighbor has most definitely helped. Many college kids look to Southern as a great place to go to school. Next to UGA and State of course.
It won't take much longer for the exurban growth to reach the southeastern border of Bulloch. Effingham and Bryan are right there and developing rapidly, not only with residential, but industry as well.
Also, the statistics that show that metro Atlanta absorbed more than 8 out of 10 newcomers to the state of Georgia over the past 7 years is not unusual at all and is actually pretty typical for states with one or more very large major metro area/regions.
In states like Illinois (that is dominated by the Chicagoland metro area/region) and New York (which, of course is dominated by the New York City metro area/region), basically all growth that occurs in those states goes to their one single very large major metro area/region (Chicago in Illinois and New York City in New York state).
The rest of Illinois outside of Chicagoland experiences virtually no growth... And in recent years with Illinois' state population actually declining in multiple years (particularly during and after the Great Recession), the rest of Illinois outside of Chicago has probably even lost population with any population gains in the state of Illinois likely going exclusively to the Chicagoland metro area/region only.
And with a city/metro like New York City being a legendary international destination worldwide, it is extraordinarily difficult for any other locale in New York state to attract any attention, particularly from an economic development standpoint.
Syracuse attracts attention because it is the site of a major university (Syracuse University) that attracts many NYC metro residents. Albany attracts attention because it is the site of the New York State Capitol, a decent-sized university (University at Albany State University of New York) that attracts many NYC metro residents and is only about 150 miles from New York City. The Adirondack Mountains region attracts some attention from affluent downstate New Yorkers and NYC metro residents who frequent the resort areas in the region. Much of the rest of New York state outside of the NYC metro tends to struggle, often mightily.
Arizona growth is dominated mostly by Phoenix and to a lesser extent by Tucson. Washington state growth is almost completely dominated by Seattle and the Puget Sound region. Massachusetts economic activity is dominated by Boston and environs.
California economic activity is dominated by Los Angeles, the Bay Area and San Diego, leaving the rest of the state to struggle for attention.
Texas' economic expansion conversations are dominated by the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex, Houston and Austin areas... Though other parts of the state (like San Antonio, El Paso, Laredo, Corpus Christi, etc) do seem to be able to remain economically competitive and viable.
Though there are some rural parts of the interior of the state that really tend to struggle, Florida's population growth and economic activity are fairly distributed somewhat evenly because of that state's status as a tourism, vacation and retirement magnet.
Overall, much of the nation and the planet as a whole is in a period when very large major metro areas are dominating economic activity and economic expansion conversations. The stats of metro Atlanta attracting 8 out of 10 Georgia newcomers appear to be reflective of those national and international trends.
When put in the perspective of what is going on around the nation and the planet, Georgia actually does pretty well in attracting growth outside of its one large singular dominant very large major metro area/region (Atlanta).
While Macon has tended to struggle to attract economic growth at times in recent years, other second-tier Georgia metros like Columbus, Warner Robins, Augusta and (especially) Savannah have done well (and even exceeding expectations) in attracting growth and staying economically competitive and viable in a state that is increasingly dominated by an economic behemoth of international importance (Atlanta) and in a time period when large major metros are overwhelmingly attracting virtually all of the economic growth internationally.
Second-tier Georgia metros like Columbus, Warner Robins, Augusta and Savannah are definitely doing significantly better than most second-tier metros in states like Illinois and New York.
"...The trend of people moving to metros with the densest urban cores—a mainstay of media coverage—is clearly over. The nation’s two megacities, New York and L.A., are shedding domestic migrants far faster than smaller metropolitan areas. Over the last year, the two coastal giants have lost domestic migrants at a rate of 0.95 percent—five times faster than metropolitan areas between 5 million and 10 million residents. Meanwhile, metropolitan areas with between 2.5 million and 5 million residents added domestic migrants at 0.14 percent, while those with 1 million to 2.5 million people grew through domestic migration at a rate of 0.33 percent. The major surprise was in the often-overlooked medium-size metropolitan areas—those with between 500,000 and 1 million people. These metros gained 105,000 net domestic migrants, far outpacing the negative 165,000 net domestic migrants for those with populations greater than 1 million...."
"...The highest-percentage declines were found in Los Angeles, Chicago, New York and, remarkably, tech-heavy San Jose, which ranked worst among 53 metropolitan areas with populations above 1 million. Last year, the San Francisco Bay Area’s seven metros experienced outmigration more than ten times higher than the annual average since 2010. This includes the “boomtown” San Francisco metropolitan area, which attracted domestic migrants from 2010 through 2015 but saw strong net outmigration last year. At 0.60 percent, San Francisco’s 2017 population growth was half its post-2010 average. In 2017, population growth in Los Angeles was among the lowest in the nation, and at 0.19 percent, down two-thirds from its annual average since 2010...."
it's just SC's version of Augusta or Columbus or Macon, but which also happens to be the capital and is home to the state's flagship university. And you. are. wrong. You're just wrong. You think you're right and you want to be right, but you're not.
You've made a series of inferences that I don't follow. First, I never said Columbia was "Augusta or Macon with a statehouse and a state university." I said metro Athens was more progressive than metro Columbia. (And when I cited "Athens" each time, I meant the metro, not Athens-Clarke alone.)
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
go back and read my statements about the percentage of Republicans voting for Trump in the primary because you have really misconstrued it.
You said: "Clarke County had a higher percentage of its voters pull the lever for Trump in the primary (26.7%) than Richland County (23.4%)." Is that supposed to mean that Trump is so awful that Clarke County Republicans choosing Trump in the spring of 2016 mean more hateful, racist, or automatically less progressive people on social issues, and there's a lower percentage of those yahoos in Richland County? You need to explain this, and why Trump (or his percentage) is at all relevant to a discussion comparing two counties in progressivism or sales of organic peanut butter.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
I don't think you get that the guy is talking about legislation and policy passed on the state level, not a local progressive atmosphere. Was his point really THAT hard to understand???
His post (one post) was condemned by several on this thread for its parochialism and ignorance. Mr. Scientist mentioned no legislation or activism, kiddo. He is a recent Atlanta transplant who sees metro Atlanta as the only worthy place in Georgia for a "Columbia scientist." I disagree wholeheartedly, and I think Athens is one such place.
Finally, the Athens anti-discrimination article deals with issues of one (unelected) activist group versus an (elected) county commission. It involves power politics amid a host of thorny issues: alcohol, dress codes, race, youthful revelers, and private businesses. Such a news flash could come from any college town.
I don't follow. I was responding to your statements about African Americans' allegiance to the Democratic Party and the current divisive nature of politics. Those are general observations having nothing to do with Atlanta or Georgia specifically.
My original statement about blacks and the Democratic party still stand. They by and large voted en masse with Hilary and eschewed Bernie. African Americans are still very conservative on many social issues. The democratic party is a pretty big tent.
Which are Rust Belt metros, so I'd hope so. But they are doing worse than their peers in the Carolinas, Florida, Tennessee, etc. That should be cause for alarm.
It's one thing for these declining rural areas to be mad at Atlanta for the investment and jobs it gets. But the 2nd tier metros do have a case to make there but I don't get the sense that they harbor any animosity towards Atlanta, which is ultimately a good thing but legislators from those metros need to form a coalition and shake some tables. As a matter of fact, significant investment in the 2nd tier metros would be a much better way to get some of these rural areas back in the game. For some of them, their only hope for survival is to become exurbs of a healthy, growing metro or to at least be within relatively close proximity to dynamic job market. Get the 2nd tier metros in the game, and you'll more of rural Georgia in the game as well.
That is a good point that Georgia's second-tier metros are not necessarily doing as well their peers in the Carolinas, Florida and Tennessee... But their peers in other states function in different competitive environments because of the difference in the geographical distribution of population in those states.
The metropolitan population is much more evenly distributed in both North Carolina (amongst Charlotte, the Triangle and Triad metro regions) and South Carolina (amongst the I-85 anchored SC Upstate/Piedmont, Columbia, Myrtle Beach and Charleston) while the most dominant metro area/region in both of the Carolinas combined is Charlotte which straddles the NC/SC state line and has only just over a third of the regional population of Atlanta.
The metropolitan population is also distributed much more evenly in Tennessee (amongst comparatively significantly smaller major metros like Nashville, Memphis, Chattanooga and Knoxville) and Florida (amongst various-sized large major metro regions like Miami, Tampa-St. Petersburg, Orlando and Jacksonville).
The Carolinas, Florida and Tennessee do not necessarily have one very large dominant major metro region of international importance overwhelmingly sucking up most (if not virtually all) of the investment, attention and interest in the state like Georgia does have in Atlanta (or like Illinois has in Chicago or New York state has in New York City).
Considering that Georgia has a one very large dominant metro area/region (Atlanta) overwhelmingly sucking up most (if not virtually all) of the investment, attention and interest in the state, second-tier metros like Columbus, Warner Robins, Augusta and (especially) Savannah have done (and continue to do) amazingly well economically for the type of situation they are in.
Second-tier Georgia metro regions like Columbus, Warner Robins/Macon, Augusta do as well as can be expected to be in a state with a very-large dominant major metro area/region like Atlanta that basically sucks all of the investment, attention and interest in the room. Those second-tier GA metros have done very well in attracting investment.
Considering the situation, the second-tier metros are very much in the game and cannot and should not be expected to perform exceedingly well economically with the Atlanta region overshadowing and dominating virtually everything that goes on in the state of Georgia.
In states like Georgia, Illinois, New York, Washington state and even Massachusetts and Arizona that are dominated by one very large major metro area/region, it often can be exceedingly difficult for second-tier city/metros and rural areas to attract the type of heavy investment that is going to want to gravitate towards the big city/metro with the famous internationally well-known name and major amenities (...amenities like a transportation hub, large market, entertainment, high-quality education, etc).
The mantra that business/economic investment often will flow to areas where corporate executives want to live very much seems to be true. If corporate executives are considering locating operations in a state like Georgia, probably 8 out of 10 times they are going to want to locate their corporate operations in or near an internationally famous and internationally accessible very large major metro region like Atlanta like the population relocation stats seem to reflect... Something that leaves second-tier metros and rural areas in most states and provinces at an extreme disadvantage both in the U.S. and in and around most other parts of the planet.
Last edited by Born 2 Roll; 04-02-2018 at 10:10 PM..
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