Brookhaven redevelopment (Atlanta, Buford: apartment, mortgage, townhouses)

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by jhtrico1850

I think localities should ban 1 car garage homes for their self interest. To me, they trap desperate first time homebuyers, and the locality gets stuck with a non appreciating asset that doesn’t pay as much taxes.

It also seems kind of sexist and harkens back to a time of 1 income households. Just my theory though.

You know, I kind of ag....wait...what!?

Wow...that's quite a stretch. My neighborhood is one-car-garage townhomes, and we have plenty of dual-income households. We even have units with three income earners living in them. We also have seen our values rise from original $200k to the current $250k (after dipping to the low $100s during the recession). So I'm not sure what your "non-appreciating asset that doesn't pay as much taxes" is supposed to mean. Townhomes all over town are doing the same thing.

To have a two-car garage instead of one in a townhome, the home must be at least 24' wide, whereas a one-car garage unit can be about 15'-16'. This limits the number of homes able to fit in the same space, and makes the units more expensive since they are larger. Now, I may be wrong, but I'm betting that 20 one-car units generate more property tax than 12 two-car units.

I'm hoping this post was a joke, because if not...I'm sort of lost.

[jhtrico1850]

The townhomes would be priced in the $300,000 range, Allison said.

They're 18 feet wide, not 16. Even where 1 car garage houses have appreciated, I noticed comparable 2 car garages have appreciated much higher. See below

100 houses * 18 feet width * 300k (per Allison) = 30M
75 houses * 24 width * 450K (price of new construction 2 car garage in Chamblee, or similar newer ones in Brookhaven) = 33.75M

https://www.zillow.com/homes/recentl...44_rect/11_zm/
2006 built 2 car garage, $228k in 2012, $383k in 2018

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...79991715_zpid/
2006 built 1 car garage, sold $263k in 2007, has failed to sell even though it's listed barely higher than what it was over 10 years ago.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by jhtrico1850

They're 18 feet wide, not 16.

I said "can be". The townhomes in my neighborhood are 16' wide.

Even where 1 car garage houses have appreciated, I noticed comparable 2 car garages have appreciated much higher. See below

100 houses * 18 feet width * 300k (per Allison) = 30M
75 houses * 24 width * 450K (price of new construction 2 car garage in Chamblee, or similar newer ones in Brookhaven) = 33.75M

https://www.zillow.com/homes/recentl...44_rect/11_zm/
2006 built 2 car garage, $228k in 2012, $383k in 2018

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...79991715_zpid/
2006 built 1 car garage, sold $263k in 2007, has failed to sell even though it's listed barely higher than what it was over 10 years ago.

Cool. I'm so glad you showed me this. This is proof that one-car garages should be outlawed.

Your price examples forget one major thing: The one that appreciated so much, appreciated from a very low market point (2012) to now, while the one that has appreciated less is from a very high market time (2007) to now. The two data sets are not remotely comparable. If you want to look at my neighborhood, they were selling for the low $100ks in 2012, and are now selling for almost $250k (one-car garages). If you compare to 2007, they were selling fro $240k. But if you look at 2004, they were selling for $200k. You can't just pick two dates out of the blue and use that as proof for a highly volatile market.

Now, what I find interesting is that the price history of the 3671 unit does not at all match actual government records. According to the DeKalb county assessor, 3671 (the 2-car unit you linked) sold for $325k in 2006, $228k in 2012, and $342k in 2016. So, there's definitely something weird going on there between government records and the real estate site records.

As far as your "has failed to sell" for 1227, it was listed and the sale fell through. It's been back on the market for about two weeks. But note: 1227 is listed as 1 bed, 1.5 bath and the bedroom doesn't even have a door. That alone is going to make it difficult to sell and keep the price way down. Units in my neighborhood, also one-car garage units, are three-bedroom, 3.5 bath.

You are comparing things that are not comparable to make a point that doesn't make sense.

[bu2]

Townhomes tend not to appreciate as much as SFH. And that's ok.

[jhtrico1850]

For a 1 car garage near transit, I guess that's ok. I know 2 people or more can live in a 1 garage home, but it's inconvenient. I'm really biased against them just on appearance I guess. There also seems to be a price ceiling for 1 car garage homes around 300k, even in good areas. It might be fine to sell in good times, but people will be picky in downturns.

Some more examples.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3...87681125_zpid/
2 car garage, sold 2008 for $323k, sold 2017 for $446k (+38%, 3.65% annually)

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...79987299_zpid/
1 car garage, sold 2006 for $254k, sold 2018 for $273k (+19%, 0.64% annually)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by JMatl

I do as well, arjay57. I see these huge, amazing 100 + year old trees being cut down all around us. It's sad, and it chips away at the soul of the place.

Many of those trees are no 100 years old. I am not sure about Brookhaven, but City of Atlanta has an aggressive tree ordinance that requires the DBH of every tree cut down to be replaced or pay a fee that goes to planting trees. So what you end up with are more trees. Many of the older trees are stressed due to our 500 year drought a few years ago and are not healthy.

Originally Posted by samiwas1

That’s pretty typical of townhomes. My entire neighborhood is 3-floor townhomes which are narrower than the ones you pictured. Our total square footage is 1352. Tight for a family of 3.

Funny how families just a couple decades ago managed with less sq ft.

Buford Hwy is a corridor that can support medium density. It currently has frequent bus service and could see BRT in the future. This is one of those commercial corridors that we should be building up.

[jhtrico1850]

1353 sqft broken up over 3 floors does not feel the same as an old ranch with 1353 sqft... I never felt cramped in my grandma's 1200 sqft ranch, but I can see how being in a 3 story house that's only 16 feet wide feels tight.

Everyone should look at these things to see if they will support growing families, not just so the developer can pack as many and sell as many as possible in the short term.

[stoxdiamond]

Originally Posted by jhtrico1850

For a 1 car garage near transit, I guess that's ok. I know 2 people or more can live in a 1 garage home, but it's inconvenient. I'm really biased against them just on appearance I guess. There also seems to be a price ceiling for 1 car garage homes around 300k, even in good areas. It might be fine to sell in good times, but people will be picky in downturns.

Some more examples.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3...87681125_zpid/
2 car garage, sold 2008 for $323k, sold 2017 for $446k (+38%, 3.65% annually)

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...79987299_zpid/
1 car garage, sold 2006 for $254k, sold 2018 for $273k (+19%, 0.64% annually)

I lived in a 1 car garage home for the past 5 years. While I agree that it is suboptimal in certain ways, they should be compared more to condos rather than 2 car townhomes. It allows buyers who cannot afford a $400,000+ townhome to live in a condo that has a similar feel. HOA dues are going to be much lower than a typical high rise condo if you don't want the bells and whistles of a gym, pool, concierge, etc. You also avoid having people living above and below you as well, so it's less noisy.

I think this provides a good option for first time homeowners. Can't have starter homes begin at $400k.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Many of those trees are no 100 years old. I am not sure about Brookhaven, but City of Atlanta has an aggressive tree ordinance that requires the DBH of every tree cut down to be replaced or pay a fee that goes to planting trees. So what you end up with are more trees. Many of the older trees are stressed due to our 500 year drought a few years ago and are not healthy.

Many of the trees I see being cut down certainly are 100+ years old. Some of them are over 100 feet tall as well. And it doesn't stop at the City Limits, it's also happening all over North DeKalb ITP neighborhoods.

As far as the City goes, I don't trust them. The outspoken head Arborist was fired several years ago, and the developers routinely get away with clear-cutting right up to the property lines - where they leave a tiny 'buffer' of small trees. The required replacements are very often pathetic.

Just as Fuqua gets to build whatever he wants, the developers pay the fines for clear-cutting and just keep things moving. It's basically out of control at this point.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by jhtrico1850

For a 1 car garage near transit, I guess that's ok. I know 2 people or more can live in a 1 garage home, but it's inconvenient. I'm really biased against them just on appearance I guess. There also seems to be a price ceiling for 1 car garage homes around 300k, even in good areas. It might be fine to sell in good times, but people will be picky in downturns.

Some more examples.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3...87681125_zpid/
2 car garage, sold 2008 for $323k, sold 2017 for $446k (+38%, 3.65% annually)

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...79987299_zpid/
1 car garage, sold 2006 for $254k, sold 2018 for $273k (+19%, 0.64% annually)

Okay...cool. If that justifies forbidding them for you, then you do you. I guess I'll just continue to live in my "sexist" home.

Yes...two-car homes will always fetch more than one-car homes, location being similar. This is not rocket surgery. But, again, you are comparing a 1-bed, 1.5-bath to a 4-bed, 4-bath with more than twice as much square footage. It's definitely going to be in more demand and probably appreciate faster. I also personally hate the rear-entry design of the single unit you posted.

Originally Posted by cqholt

Funny how families just a couple decades ago managed with less sq ft.

They also managed without internet, without cable/satellite TV, without air conditioning, and many other things. People used to "manage" without vehicles, planes, trains, heat, or plumbing. Do you want to live in that world? Didn't think so. A three floor, single-wide townhome loses a lot of its square footage to stairs. So, while the total square footage might be 1352, the actual livable square footage is closer to 1,000. I might like my family, but I don't want to be on top of them all day. We'd like some separation. If you want to be in the same room with your wife and kids every day, then congratulations. Enjoy it. I'm glad it works for you. That isn't me.

Buford Hwy is a corridor that can support medium density. It currently has frequent bus service and could see BRT in the future. This is one of those commercial corridors that we should be building up.

Yep.