Atlanta’s relationship with the automobile is reaching a crossroads. (Acworth: lower-class, apartments)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

That is what neighborhood roads are for. A road like Glenwood, or Memorial, or Moreland has no business being a road that kids can play in.



And less movement. Can you find me one city in the world which has no main roads? Just roads that kids can safely play in?



Yes, demand is quite strong for walkable areas. Are you stretching that to believe that demand is strong to get rid of arterial and collector roads throughout the inner metro?





Damn, dude. I didn't even suggest that. You really need to pay attention. I simply stated that a road like Glenwood is a collector, mostly meant to move vehicular traffic from neighborhoods to larger arterial roads, with decent considerations for other uses. It is not a back neighborhood street. And Glenwood runs through the little "downtown"-style area at Kennedy. His image brings to mind small-town downtowns, not huge metro downtowns. Glenwood is two lanes with nice sidewalks and bike lanes, but it's not, and never will be, considered a place for children to play games in the street.

It is not viable in a huge metro for every road to have that status. Could you imagine trying to drive even five miles on a road like this with dozens of others doing the same? It would be terrible, and inefficient as hell. That's why we have a series of road types: Neighborhood/local roads feed to collector roads which feed to arterial roads which feed to highways.



Sorry that you feel that way, but as long as you keep putting out inaccurate claims, I will keep challenging them. I believe everything I say, and usually research facts and information before I post a rebuttal. You said gas taxes pay for less than half of roads they're intended for. I provided a link showing almost 90% in Georgia. You didn't respond. You said people would never accept paying more gas tax for their roads. I provided sources showing more than 60% increase in state gas tax in the past three years. You didn't respond. You said that a MARTA ticket covers 30% or more of costs. I posted sources from MARTA showing that passenger fares cover less than 15% of operating costs, and 0% of capital costs. You didn't respond.

If someone provides actual sources to prove me wrong in anything, I generally accept and respond. cqholt and others have done this a time or two. But, if you continue to argue factual inaccuracies after having been given proof of their inaccuracy...yeah, I will call you out on it. What is old is the continuance to do so...the absolute refusal of facts.



Man, you didn't even acknowledge the little side joke I left for you there!

Glenwood East of I-20 is different than West of the freeway. Don't lump the entire corridor together.

[Need4Camaro]

I personally believe the new "walkable city theme" has truly already been concluded in Atlanta as they can't feasibly undo practically everything that the metro has constructed as a mostly car dependent society without spending gobs and gobs of cash.

The answer were those new live / work / shop communities like Atlantic Station, or The Avalon in Alpharetta.

For them to truly make Atlanta and its entire metro walkable, you'd have to make commuters destinations closer, thus densification which means everyone would either need to move ITP or the OTP suburbs would have to grow more dense. Neither would be cheap or easy.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I personally believe the new "walkable city theme" has truly already been concluded in Atlanta as they can't feasibly undo practically everything that the metro has constructed as a mostly car dependent society without spending gobs and gobs of cash.

For them to truly make Atlanta and its entire metro walkable, you'd have to make commuters destinations closer, thus densification which means everyone would either need to move ITP or the OTP suburbs would have to grow more dense. Neither would be cheap or easy.

Car infrastructure is expensive. Yet even the the most primitive set of huts clustered around a campfire are a walkable community.

Walkability is comparatively quite cheap. Really all it takes is legalizing density and the rest will follow. Even if you refuse to give pedestrians and bikes enough space on dense city streets they will eventually just spill out and start walking in the street around all the grid locked cars.

Yes, I agree the suburbs will have some big challenges ahead trying to retrofit themselves with walkability but the core of Atlanta was built around walkability and transit. It is becoming a more walkable city every day.

You really think Atlanta has reached its peak walkability? I think it is just getting started. We are only a few years removed from Atlanta's low-point in walkability.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I am beginning to think we need to block off more areas for pedestrians. More and more of them are aimlessly wandering around anyway. And of course 2/3 of them are yakking on their cell phones and paying no attention whatsoever. So we might as well take steps to keep them safe.

It's terrible in many mall parking lots -- you've got people rambling all over the place like they are picking daisies in a country meadow. Apparently they don't realize (or care) that a person my age backing out of a parking space may not have a 360 degree field of vision.

Agreed Arjay. People in the streets is a natural thing. Trying to keep people out of streets in a losing battle.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Glenwood East of I-20 is different than West of the freeway. Don't lump the entire corridor together.

I haven't even looked at Glenwood east of I-20...only been discussing west of it, in jsvh's area.

Originally Posted by arjay57

I am beginning to think we need to block off more areas for pedestrians. More and more of them are aimlessly wandering around anyway. And of course 2/3 of them are yakking on their cell phones and paying no attention whatsoever.

Ain't that the truth. Try driving down Joseph E. Lowery at some point. It's like playing reverse *******. EDIT: What the hell??? The name of a popular video game where you try to dodge cars as an amphibian is censored?? F r o g g e r.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Car infrastructure is expensive. Yet even the the most primitive set of huts clustered around a campfire are a walkable community.

Walkability is comparatively quite cheap. Really all it takes is legalizing density and the rest will follow. Even if you refuse to give pedestrians and bikes enough space on dense city streets they will eventually just spill out and start walking in the street around all the grid locked cars.

Yes, I agree the suburbs will have some big challenges ahead trying to retrofit themselves with walkability but the core of Atlanta was built around walkability and transit. It is becoming a more walkable city every day.

You really think Atlanta has reached its peak walkability? I think it is just getting started. We are only a few years removed from Atlanta's low-point in walkability.

Not necessarily peak walkability in potential ...no...far from it...but in feasibility...Im just not sure how they could easily undo the much lower density areas.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Not necessarily peak walkability in potential ...no...far from it...but in feasibility...Im just not sure how they could easily undo the much lower density areas.

Intown areas will continue to improve and are just getting started. But it is true. I think the low density areas will struggle. I know pretty decent number of friends that share suburban homes with many roommates that is increasing density that way. But unfortunately I think many of the low-density suburban designed areas are destined to become the new slums in many cases before getting redeveloped and turned into denser, better conencted developments.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by jsvh

But unfortunately I think many of the low-density suburban designed areas are destined to become the new slums in many cases before getting redeveloped and turned into denser, better conencted developments.

Which ones? Closer suburban-designed areas like Ansley Park, Paces, and Morningside? Or are you talking about further-out suburbs like Smyrna, Alpharetta, and Newnan?

[ddm2k]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Agreed Arjay. People in the streets is a natural thing. Trying to keep people out of streets in a losing battle.

The more crowded pictures make my blood pressure rise just thinking about how unpleasant it would be to face that density on a daily basis. At least in rush hour, my car is like a personal bubble.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

Which ones? Closer suburban-designed areas like Ansley Park, Paces, and Morningside? Or are you talking about further-out suburbs like Smyrna, Alpharetta, and Newnan?

More the latter. The inner suburbs already had their time of struggles, but they have been improving and densifying for a decade or two now. They have the advantage of being denser and having a better connected street grid tho.

It will not impact all neighborhoods equally, but on the whole the suburbs in places like Gwinnett and Cobb have an uphill battle ahead of them.