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Atlanta's popularity post-recession has filled Georgia's coffers and thankfully they are seizing the opportunity to make infrastructure improvements while the money's flowing.
You only have to look at Georgia's state budget which used to always be the same as NC's.
But this year Georgia's budget is $2 billion more than NC's ($26 billion to NC's $24 billion).
If Georgia had emerged just average from the recession, nothing would be going on, and it would be the same whining and protesting against so much as a 10 cent gas tax hike.
And support for mass transit I feel is solely due to the headquarters of State Farm, NCR, etc. insisting to be near Marta lines. That confirmed to State leaders that Marta is the region's most valuable asset, not just transportation for the riff raff.
I'm not sure about the state as a whole, but Atlanta's recovery from the recession really lagged but thankfully job growth has been strong since it has.
I'm not defying the rules of which the MSA's made. I agree that the MSA of Atlanta is perfectly legit, however; also deceiving as it leads some to believe Atlanta is enormous but when compared to cities of its league - in terms of surrounding development, it's no larger or smaller.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
People from outlying counties don't need to commute to the city center for those counties to be included in the metro; they can commute to other core counties in the metro.
Please see the underlined bolded.
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Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
The difference is, those areas outside of Los Angeles have other job centers scattered throughout the region making it unecessary to commute to the city center for work where as populated areas outside of Atlanta do not offer as much in terms of work and have to commute to Atlanta (or within the 5 core counties)which makes Atlanta's MSA seem larger than it really is when compared to other metro's. If those metro's exhurbs were included (meaning they had to commute into the city for work) their MSA would also inflate.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Also consider that California has both very small and very large counties and this is probably the reason Riverside/San Bernardino is a separate MSA (put part of the same CSA).
The reason Riverside and San Bernardino are a separate MSA is because the residents of those counties have enough employment opportunities within its locality as to not have a need to commute to the core of Los Angeles for work. It has nothing to do with the county size, or population of that county. It is dependent on how much that county "depends" on the neighboring city of which determines if its included within its MSA or not. Essentially, those counties are self sustaining, however; it would be highly unlikely that they would be where they are today if not for Los Angeles and the rest of its metro. Sustaining work has just moved further from the core of the city.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
You need to stop using the word "inflate." The same standard of inclusion for metropolitan counties exists all across the country, but things like geography, development patterns, county size, etc. may play a role in how counties are included or excluded.
It's inflated because if you were to take the same exurbs of any other city (of which commuters do not need to commute to the core's of those cities) every metro in the country would instantly gain a million people - The reason Atlanta has such a large metro has nothing to do with the size of Atlanta but rather the outlying counties are more dependent on Atlanta in economic terms than said counties across other metro's.
The population of those counties have little to do with them being included in the MSA or not, however; I'm sure those counties growth were definitely influenced by Atlanta and its metro without a doubt, but as a basic example the same could be said for exhurb cities outside of the Los Angeles MSA.. which extends well outside of that area which in the grand scope of SoCal the Greater Los Angeles MSA is pretty much inner-city.
The difference is, those areas outside of Los Angeles have other job centers scattered throughout the region making it unecessary to commute to the city center for work where as populated areas outside of Atlanta do not offer as much in terms of work and have to commute to Atlanta (or within the 5 core counties) which makes Atlanta's MSA seem larger than it really is when compared to other metro's. If those metro's exhurbs were included (meaning they had to commute into the city for work) their MSA would also inflate.
Yeah that's a bad comparison and shows you don't get it
Their population have everything to do with the result of being near Atlanta.
Random rual places don't randomly grew if there was no Atlanta there would be no large populated places out side of Atlanta. In the early 20th century Atlanta and Birmingham where similar sizes so how did Georgia get all there populated counties in North Georgia? Why did they grew? There growth happened because they became Atlanta suburbs and exurban counties.
Your saying the population only commute to Atlanta because of lack of employment centers. But if there was no Atlanta there wouldn't be a population to commute.
Riverside and LA etc are a separate metros it's like the Athens area. LA did not originally cause Riverside MSA to exist. This is not comparable to Atlanta areas there are no other historic major cities in North Georgia. Atlanta cause the metro population to exist.
I'm not defying the rules of which the MSA's made. I agree that the MSA of Atlanta is perfectly legit, however; also deceiving as it leads some to believe Atlanta is enormous but when compared to cities of its league - in terms of surrounding development, it's no larger or smaller.
This makes absolutely no sense to me.
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The reason Riverside and San Bernardino are a separate MSA is because the residents of those counties have enough employment opportunities within its locality as to not have a need to commute to the core of Los Angeles for work. It has nothing to do with the county size, or population of that county. It is dependent on how much that county "depends" on the neighboring city of which determines if its included within its MSA or not. Essentially, those counties are self sustaining, however; it would be highly unlikely that they would be where they are today if not for Los Angeles and the rest of its metro. Sustaining work has just moved further from the core of the city.
Actually county size does play a role here. San Bernardino and Riverside counties are HUGE, stretching all the way to the Nevada and Arizona borders.
As such, they contain a ton of rural areas whose residents travel to Riverside and San Bernardino for work, but they really aren't considered to be significant employment centers within the region; the GDP of that region is quite low compared to others of similar population which somewhat attests to that. Historically they were very agricultural and today the Inland Empire is basically considered to be a bedroom community. If those counties were cut down to size, it is very likely that they would still be a part of the MSA, maybe as a metropolitan division.
Quote:
It's inflated because if you were to take the same exurbs of any other city (of which commuters do not need to commute to the core's of those cities) every metro in the country would instantly gain a million people - The reason Atlanta has such a large metro has nothing to do with the size of Atlanta but rather the outlying counties are more dependent on Atlanta in economic terms than said counties across other metro's.
You seem to be arguing against yourself here. If more outlying counties in metro Atlanta are more dependent on Atlanta/Fulton County for employment, then that's an even stronger justification for their inclusion in the metro, is it not? I'm honestly having the hardest time understanding your logic here.
First of all I'm against any insane growth because it makes this place less affordable. I've looked around at real estate and apartments in other cities up north (NY, DC) and out West and I simply can't afford to move there right now. So I feel kind of stuck here. ATL is ok I'm not hatin' and have had some great memories here.
But like some people said above this whole MSA thing just feels weird to me.
Basically the top third of Georgia is "Metro Atlanta" now and that doesn't seem legit. You don't feel like you are in one "city" if you consider one third of Georgia as the Metro area. And it cheapens what it means to be in Atlanta which to me is the city itself. Not Cobb not Gwinett not Clayton but the city. And the last thing I need is this news to inflate the real estate here and make me have to move somewhere even cheaper.
First of all I'm against any insane growth because it makes this place less affordable. I've looked around at real estate and apartments in other cities up north (NY, DC) and out West and I simply can't afford to move there right now. So I feel kind of stuck here. ATL is ok I'm not hatin' and have had some great memories here.
But like some people said above this whole MSA thing just feels weird to me.
Basically the top third of Georgia is "Metro Atlanta" now and that doesn't seem legit. You don't feel like you are in one "city" if you consider one third of Georgia as the Metro area. And it cheapens what it means to be in Atlanta which to me is the city itself. Not Cobb not Gwinett not Clayton but the city. And the last thing I need is this news to inflate the real estate here and make me have to move somewhere even cheaper.
What do y'all think?
There are no natural boundaries to growth in metro Atlanta so you're not going to see rapid increases in COL indicators based on rapid growth alone. However if you're talking about the most desirable places in the metro, then of course you're more likely to see that phenomenon at work there.
First of all I'm against any insane growth because it makes this place less affordable. I've looked around at real estate and apartments in other cities up north (NY, DC) and out West and I simply can't afford to move there right now. So I feel kind of stuck here. ATL is ok I'm not hatin' and have had some great memories here.
But like some people said above this whole MSA thing just feels weird to me.
Basically the top third of Georgia is "Metro Atlanta" now and that doesn't seem legit. You don't feel like you are in one "city" if you consider one third of Georgia as the Metro area. And it cheapens what it means to be in Atlanta which to me is the city itself. Not Cobb not Gwinett not Clayton but the city. And the last thing I need is this news to inflate the real estate here and make me have to move somewhere even cheaper.
What do y'all think?
Metro Atlanta isn't a third it's more like a quarter, The CSA is like a third.
Rual counties don't randomly grow there have to be some developing city to cause growth. If a county gets 100 to over 200k it's some metroplitan area. Either it's a core of a small metroplitian itself or it's a suburban county part of a larger metro. And this echo with commuting rates.
There is no Rome or Athens inside Cherokee, Paulding, Forsyth so they didn't form internal city, There population is a result of being Metro Atlanta suburbs. For yall saying that blank areas isn't part of the metro yall most give answer to what metro they apart of it archive that population?
Again Birmingham and Atlanta was once similar sizes at the begin of last century, but notice North and South of Birmingham isn't a populated. This cause rural counties don't randomly get a 100k or more. This happen in Georgia because of Atlanta.
As mention numerous times Atlanta has a small city limit for a sunbelt city, Regardless that political municipal boundaries are just 133.2 sq mi The city function development wise, economically wise, culturally wise as if it's over 300 sq mi. That's why Atlanta got large employment areas in the inner suburban area, that why Buford Hwy turn into a multi ethnic cave. Going to Gwinette from DT Atlanta is like Going to the San Fernando from LA.
And use to think sunbelt cities have large cities limits, then Search up a lot cities across the world in realize Atlanta is actually in the minority with Paris, San Fransico, Philly, milan and hand full of others but most cities Atlanta size or larger across the world generally do have larger cities limits somewhere between 200 to 600 sq mi.
But there nothing "inflated" about metro population. In fact if there anything off is the city population, If Atlanta was at least Charolotte size it would be over a million. This mislead people to not know the actual size of the region.
It's inflated because if you were to take the same exurbs of any other city (of which commuters do not need to commute to the core's of those cities) every metro in the country would instantly gain a million people - The reason Atlanta has such a large metro has nothing to do with the size of Atlanta but rather the outlying counties are more dependent on Atlanta in economic terms than said counties across other metro's.
No. And please name these other metro's not named L.A. that are our actual peers.
You are way off the mark here, and to be honest you seem to be on a 'let's diss Atlanta' campaign lately.
Again, take your complaints about being 'inflated' up with the Feds.
No. And please name these other metro's not named L.A. that are our actual peers.
You are way off the mark here, and to be honest you seem to be on a 'let's diss Atlanta' campaign lately.
Again, take your complaints about being 'inflated' up with the Feds.
To be honest he's not lying. Atlanta is the very...and ONLY reason places like Newnan, Fayetteville, etc have been able to prosper. Hell when I was in high school Newnan was no more built out or populated than LaGrange was. Then, people started fleeing the city and moving further and further out and Newnan's population and growth exploded. Hell I watched it happen firsthand. Now you have tons of people that would rather live in Newnan and commute to ATL than actually live there.
To be honest he's not lying. Atlanta is the very...and ONLY reason places like Newnan, Fayetteville, etc have been able to prosper. Hell when I was in high school Newnan was no more built out or populated than LaGrange was. Then, people started fleeing the city and moving further and further out and Newnan's population and growth exploded. Hell I watched it happen firsthand. Now you have tons of people that would rather live in Newnan and commute to ATL than actually live there.
No one's taking any issue with that part of this post. And it's hardly unique to Atlanta. The same thing happened in Nashville (see Murfreesboro), Dallas (see Plano and Denton), Phoenix (see Chandler), and the list goes on. Rather, it's the implication that they're any less a part of "Atlanta" because they're further out in terms of distance. That's ridiculous.
BTW, let's not pick just pick the southside suburbs. Same applies to places like Cumming, Woodstock, Covington, Villa Rica, etc. as well.
EDIT: One more point. Another reason places like Newnan, McDonough, etc. are booming is because a lot of transplants from big northern cities work in places like Columbus or Macon (and even Kia in West Point), yet still want to enjoy the perks of living in a major metropolitan area and not experience a huge culture shock.
Last edited by citidata18; 06-29-2018 at 01:38 AM..
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