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Old 04-08-2008, 11:42 AM
 
Location: ITP
2,133 posts, read 5,725,050 times
Reputation: 1353

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagmypts View Post
If you took the time to actually read my post, it was quite clear that I was talking about the future. Your post to which I was originally responding, in which you talked about people dropping guns and being "accidentally shot", was written in future tense (when this bill passes). Consequently, my post was written in future tense as well. Please read the post to which you are responding before making such a crazy response!
It's not a crazy response. Obviously, you feel that it's perfectly alright and safe to permit guns on public transport. I clearly gave a couple examples of why guns on public transport can lead to fatal results.
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Old 04-08-2008, 11:59 AM
 
1,755 posts, read 5,111,059 times
Reputation: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
Maybe the government's interest is the same as that of the road construction lobby.

Scare people away from MARTA, forcing them onto the roads, creating even more traffic congestion, forcing the government to give even more money to their friends in the road construction industry.

It's no secret that the state government is no friend of MARTA. I think this is a dirty trick.
you think people on MARTA don't carry now???? God forbid someone who obeys the law do it.

via Wiki:
Criminal activity

Throughout MARTA's history there have been continued concerns regarding criminal activity on MARTA trains and in and around MARTA train stations. In the aftermath of a 1985 an aggrevated assault against the daughter of a Georgia State University professor complaints were made that MARTA was underreporting its annual crime statistics. A 1986 review of the previous year's records by MARTA's audit office and the state legistatures MARTA Oversight Committee showed no deliberate underreporting of crime, but rather overreporting of crime because MARTA included crimes not related to the rail line and did not adhere to the Uniform Crime Reporting system (reporting multiple crimes by the same person instead of only the most serious crime).[67]

According to Federal Transit Administration records MARTA's crime statistics are in line with those of similar-sized systems, such as Bay Area Rapid Transit in San Francisco.[68] However, high profile crimes on or near MARTA have created the impression with some that MARTA is unsafe and lacks a strong police presence.[68] In the past four years (2004-2007) MARTA has had 3 homicides and 3 rapes. The most common crime reported was larceny. The most common area for crime was MARTA's rail service, followed by MARTA's parking lots. For fiscal year 2007 MARTA had a crime rate of 2.58 percent per 1000 riders.[69]

Suburban counties have opposed expanding MARTA on the basis that it would lead to increased crime. It is alleged that because MARTA's service area includes some of Atlanta's most economically depressed and high crime neighborhoods, expansion of MARTA would allow crime to spread to suburban areas.[70]
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Old 04-08-2008, 12:04 PM
 
297 posts, read 1,423,483 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by south-to-west View Post
It's not a crazy response. Obviously, you feel that it's perfectly alright and safe to permit guns on public transport. I clearly gave a couple examples of why guns on public transport can lead to fatal results.
But did you cite a single example where the gun was legally held? Once again, this bill does nothing for those who illegally own guns (be definition). I could point out literally thousands of cases where there have been crimes committed by people who illegally own guns. Obviously, abusing guns is bad. The only relevant facts/cases/examples pertiaining to this bill are the ones where the guns are legally possessed (and concealed).
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Old 04-08-2008, 12:06 PM
JPD
 
12,159 posts, read 15,540,857 times
Reputation: 7922
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt6974a View Post
you think people on MARTA don't carry now???? God forbid someone who obeys the law do it.
Get a grip. I never said that.
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Old 04-08-2008, 12:08 PM
 
74 posts, read 641,175 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by south-to-west View Post
You won't find anything because GUNS AREN'T ALLOWED ON MARTA RIGHT NOW! But I DO know that guns have never been good on public transport. Look at the incident on the Long Island Rail Road 10-15 years ago when that crazy guy killed several commuters. Look at the Bernard Goetz case back in the 80s--you know, the scared guy who thought that several black youths were about to assault him on the subway in NYC so he shot them. That's all we need is for some scaredy-cat on the train to start blasting someone because they feel threatened.

Look, we have the MARTA police to patrol the train. We don't need armed vigilanties--that's not how we function in a civilized society.
Neither Colin Ferguson (the LIR shooter) or Bernard Goetz had conceal/carry permits. In fact, Goetz did apply for a permit to carry a handgun, which was denied as are most such applications in New York City. This would be the perfect argument for allowing guns by private citizens. Specifically, the LIR shooter could, in theory, have been stopped by someone else before shooting 25 people. Obviously we don't know if someone would have stopped them or if cross-fire would have killed additional people.

The point is, though, that the two examples you cite are both situations where people were carrying guns illegally. The same thing could happen on MARTA today with or without this bill.

They were not allowed to carry the guns on public transport and yet they did anyway. They are examples of people dying on public transport but they have nothing to do with conceal/carry permits or this bill. Using the same line of reasoning, I could say that guns should not be allowed on streets because people use them to mug people; they should not be allowed in cars because of road rage; basically, they should not be allowed anywhere that someone could shoot them. Just as you say we have MARTA police patrolling the train, yo ucould also say "we have city/county police patrolling the streets so we don't need guns"....oh, wait, that is the argument that private citizens should not be allowed to have guns at all...
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Old 04-08-2008, 01:15 PM
 
122 posts, read 313,051 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Jones 1999 View Post
...what has brought about the need to "pack heat" on MARTA and in places to eat? Has there been an increase in violence in these two places? If there has not, what is the Government's interest?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kagmypts View Post
As has been said before on this thread, it is not as much about possessing guns in these places as it is about the right to carry guns to and from. Second, this is not about the the government's interest but rather about an individual's right to carry a gun.
These are actually valid questions and points. As Mike says, What prompted this bill? You would think there must be a reason such as a rise in crime. But as kagmypts points out, the bill seems to be addressing right infringement. Proponents argue that if you give the right to carry a concealled weapon in public places, why make some public places off limits? If you read further into this bill and HB 89, you will see they do not just deal specifically with MARTA and restaurants. You'll see public gathering places, public employer parking lots, public school zones, mass transit, etc. I dont think it's because of increased crime per se, but an extension of their perceived rights.

I personally dont have an opinion on this.
As far as gun safety and risks vs benefits, I dont think anyone here is going convince anybody of their viewpoints.

I do like the DOT the theory stated on the previous page.
But my money says if you dig deep enough, you'll find NRA lobbyist guiding the hand. I think they've been pushing these bills for a while now.
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Old 04-08-2008, 02:12 PM
 
Location: ITP
2,133 posts, read 5,725,050 times
Reputation: 1353
You want to talk about right infringement? Why in the hell is it more practical to carry a firearm on public transport than buying alcohol at the store on Sundays?
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Old 04-08-2008, 02:15 PM
 
17 posts, read 71,425 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantasfinest View Post
In my opinion our Georgia Legislature is continuing to embody all of the negative stereotypes about our state...Guns on Marta & Restaurants? I hope Sonny "Dummy" Purdue will resist the urge to sign this bill in. Comments anyone?

Senate OKs guns in eateries, on MARTA trains | ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2008/04/02/guns_0403.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab - broken link)
Yeah...you can move back to unarmed Cali....

I'm just sayin.....
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Old 04-08-2008, 02:22 PM
 
122 posts, read 313,051 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by south-to-west View Post
You want to talk about right infringement? Why in the hell is it more practical to carry a firearm on public transport than buying alcohol at the store on Sundays?
never understood that one. i wonder how much sales tax is lost there.
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Old 04-08-2008, 02:30 PM
 
74 posts, read 641,175 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by south-to-west View Post
You want to talk about right infringement? Why in the hell is it more practical to carry a firearm on public transport than buying alcohol at the store on Sundays?
I would agree with you on that. I personally don't see any reason why the government should be restricting sales of a product on one day and not the others.
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