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Old 04-04-2008, 10:20 AM
JPD
 
12,159 posts, read 15,533,756 times
Reputation: 7922

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So, you're allowed to shoot someone for stealing your wallet or purse?
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:46 AM
 
122 posts, read 312,975 times
Reputation: 22
Oh for the love....
there should be a bill requiring an IQ test before being allowed to post on the internet.....

just a few item...(sources at the bottom)

"If gun control laws have any effect, it may be to increase crime. For instance:[SIZE=1]19[/SIZE]
  • New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later, the murder rate was up 46 percent and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled.
  • In 1968, Hawaii imposed a series of increasingly harsh measures and its murder rate, then a low 2.4 per 100,000 per year, tripled to 7.2 by 1977.
  • In 1976, Washington, D.C., enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134 percent while the national murder rate has dropped 2 percent.
The 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns.

ENGLAND

Clearly, the firearm laws have not caused violent crime to fall, and the gun laws have probably increased criminal violence by disarming the general public. Despite banning and confiscating all handguns, violent crime, and firearm crime, continues to grow. The number of violent crimes involving handguns has increased from 2,600 in 1997/98 to 3,600 in 1999/00. And firearm crime has increased 200% in the past decade. The British Home Office admits that only one firearm in 10 used in homicide was legally held (British Home Office, 2001). But, the politicians continue their policy of disarming responsible citizens.

Australia

English-style gun laws have failed in Australia too. In 1997, the Australian federal government panicked, following the horrific murders by a deranged man in 1996, and banned and confiscated 600,000 semiautomatic "military style" firearms from their licenced owners (Lawson 1999). The result? Violent crime continues to increase.



sources..
untitled
NCPA - Policy Report 176 - Myths About Gun Control (http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st176/s176c.html - broken link)
Gun Control: Myths and Realities
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:57 AM
 
297 posts, read 1,423,186 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGS99 View Post
Oh for the love....
there should be a bill requiring an IQ test before being allowed to post on the internet.....

just a few item...(sources at the bottom)

"If gun control laws have any effect, it may be to increase crime. For instance:[SIZE=1]19[/SIZE]
  • New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later, the murder rate was up 46 percent and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled.
  • In 1968, Hawaii imposed a series of increasingly harsh measures and its murder rate, then a low 2.4 per 100,000 per year, tripled to 7.2 by 1977.
  • In 1976, Washington, D.C., enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134 percent while the national murder rate has dropped 2 percent.
The 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns.

ENGLAND

Clearly, the firearm laws have not caused violent crime to fall, and the gun laws have probably increased criminal violence by disarming the general public. Despite banning and confiscating all handguns, violent crime, and firearm crime, continues to grow. The number of violent crimes involving handguns has increased from 2,600 in 1997/98 to 3,600 in 1999/00. And firearm crime has increased 200% in the past decade. The British Home Office admits that only one firearm in 10 used in homicide was legally held (British Home Office, 2001). But, the politicians continue their policy of disarming responsible citizens.

Australia

English-style gun laws have failed in Australia too. In 1997, the Australian federal government panicked, following the horrific murders by a deranged man in 1996, and banned and confiscated 600,000 semiautomatic "military style" firearms from their licenced owners (Lawson 1999). The result? Violent crime continues to increase.



sources..
untitled
NCPA - Policy Report 176 - Myths About Gun Control (http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st176/s176c.html - broken link)
Gun Control: Myths and Realities
AMEN! As a matter of fact, the Washington, D.C. gun control law from 1976 that you mention is the case that the Supreme Court willing be ruling on shortly (see my prior post). The Constitutionality of the law has been challenged, and as of now, the District Court of Appeals has ruled that the gun control law is unconstitutional.
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:21 AM
 
823 posts, read 2,023,212 times
Reputation: 424
You don't think the rise in the NJ murder rate had more to do with the Newark riots that happened in that time? Just maybe?

Correlation does not equal causation.
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:43 AM
 
122 posts, read 312,975 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteyNice View Post
You don't think the rise in the NJ murder rate had more to do with the Newark riots that happened in that time? Just maybe?

Correlation does not equal causation.
Its a nice thought......Just maybe.
Except more than the 26 people killed in the rights of mid-1967 made up these numbers....

New Jersey Crime stats

YEAR MURDERS
1966 240
1967 276
1968 358
1969 369
1970 412
1971 426
1972 481
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:44 AM
JPD
 
12,159 posts, read 15,533,756 times
Reputation: 7922
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGS99 View Post
Oh for the love....
there should be a bill requiring an IQ test before being allowed to post on the internet.....

just a few item...(sources at the bottom)

"If gun control laws have any effect, it may be to increase crime. For instance:[SIZE=1]19[/SIZE]
  • New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later, the murder rate was up 46 percent and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled.
  • In 1968, Hawaii imposed a series of increasingly harsh measures and its murder rate, then a low 2.4 per 100,000 per year, tripled to 7.2 by 1977.
  • In 1976, Washington, D.C., enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134 percent while the national murder rate has dropped 2 percent.
The 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns.

ENGLAND

Clearly, the firearm laws have not caused violent crime to fall, and the gun laws have probably increased criminal violence by disarming the general public. Despite banning and confiscating all handguns, violent crime, and firearm crime, continues to grow. The number of violent crimes involving handguns has increased from 2,600 in 1997/98 to 3,600 in 1999/00. And firearm crime has increased 200% in the past decade. The British Home Office admits that only one firearm in 10 used in homicide was legally held (British Home Office, 2001). But, the politicians continue their policy of disarming responsible citizens.

Australia

English-style gun laws have failed in Australia too. In 1997, the Australian federal government panicked, following the horrific murders by a deranged man in 1996, and banned and confiscated 600,000 semiautomatic "military style" firearms from their licenced owners (Lawson 1999). The result? Violent crime continues to increase.



sources..
untitled
NCPA - Policy Report 176 - Myths About Gun Control (http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st176/s176c.html - broken link)
Gun Control: Myths and Realities

Nobody is proposing confiscation of handguns in Georgia, so your England and Australia examples are totally irrelevant.

Some people happen to think it's a bad idea to allow guns to be brought to places where there is no history of gun violence (restaurants, for instance).

If you're going to insult people, at least have the guts to quote that person directly so they will know you are adressing them. Or is it that you think anyone who has a differing viewpoint than yours must have a low IQ?
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:55 AM
 
122 posts, read 312,975 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post

If you're going to insult people, at least have the guts to quote that person directly so they will know you are adressing them. Or is it that you think anyone who has a differing viewpoint than yours must have a low IQ?
I didnt want to take up that much space quoting multiple people.
But since you bit, I'll address you.
The only problem here is that these aren't "viewpoints"
People are suggesting that relaxing gun laws/regulations will somehow lead to more crime/murders. The statistical data does not support this idea.
People respond with emotion on what they think the outcome will be instead of factual information.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:08 PM
JPD
 
12,159 posts, read 15,533,756 times
Reputation: 7922
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGS99 View Post
The only problem here is that these aren't "viewpoints"
People are suggesting that relaxing gun laws/regulations will somehow lead to more crime/murders. The statistical data does not support this idea.
People respond with emotion on what they think the outcome will be instead of factual information.
Statistics are numbers that can be translated in different ways. "Crime increased as a result of gun control" is not a fact. As someone else already stated, correlation and causation are not the same thing.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:16 PM
 
122 posts, read 312,975 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
Statistics are numbers that can be translated in different ways. "Crime increased as a result of gun control" is not a fact. As someone else already stated, correlation and causation are not the same thing.
You can explain away all day the reasons for the increased crime.
But one way these numbers CANNOT be translated into is that increased gun control reduces crime.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:17 PM
 
823 posts, read 2,023,212 times
Reputation: 424
You can't take those six days in a vacuum. I bring them up as context for what was going on at the time.

Again, correlation does not equal causation. As much as you want it to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BGS99 View Post
Its a nice thought......Just maybe.
Except more than the 26 people killed in the rights of mid-1967 made up these numbers....

New Jersey Crime stats

YEAR MURDERS
1966 240
1967 276
1968 358
1969 369
1970 412
1971 426
1972 481
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