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Old 04-07-2008, 07:56 AM
 
74 posts, read 641,357 times
Reputation: 119

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
Why would I pull your gun? How exactly would that work?
I obviously switched person when it was unintentional. It should be "I pull my gun" or "you pull your gun".
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:16 AM
JPD
 
12,159 posts, read 15,546,904 times
Reputation: 7931
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlDad View Post
I obviously switched person when it was unintentional. It should be "I pull my gun" or "you pull your gun".
That's what I figured, but since you did it twice I thought I'd ask.

So, ok, maybe you could in some circumstances shoot a perp who is committing a crime against someone else. But what if the perp has an friend/accomplice watching from a distance who is also packing and ready to shoot?

Shootout. Advantage: criminal(s)...ALWAYS.
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:25 AM
 
122 posts, read 313,132 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
Exactly. The criminal has the advantage every time. They know what they are about to do. You and I don't.

People aren't going to stop getting mugged if we all start carrying guns. What will change is, eventually, someone legally carrying a gun will get mugged. In an attempt at self-defense the victim will reach for their gun, like a vigilante idiot, and the mugger rather than taking their wallet and running away, will have no choice but to shoot the gun-toting victim.

Better put in an order for more body bags.
Ahhhhh. I see what you there…. I follow you. You turned it around. Now instead of being a victim of a crime, they are a “gun-toting” victim. And an “idiot”. After all, the criminal will have “no choice” but to shoot this gun-toting idiot.

Keep going guys!!! This is great stuff. That made my morning. I can’t find this type of humor anywhere else.
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:35 AM
JPD
 
12,159 posts, read 15,546,904 times
Reputation: 7931
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGS99 View Post
Ahhhhh. I see what you there…. I follow you. You turned it around. Now instead of being a victim of a crime, they are a “gun-toting” victim. And an “idiot”. After all, the criminal will have “no choice” but to shoot this gun-toting idiot.

Keep going guys!!! This is great stuff. That made my morning. I can’t find this type of humor anywhere else.
If someone has a gun pointed at you and asks for your wallet or purse and you reach into your vest (or wherever your gun is concealed) to grab your gun you are an idiot. I did not say a person is an idiot for carrying a gun.

Intentionally misinterpreting opposing viewpoints makes your argument less credible.
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:44 AM
 
Location: ITP
2,133 posts, read 5,726,386 times
Reputation: 1353
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlDad View Post
The basic question I asked a while back that no one has even attempted to answer on this forum is "what is wrong with the bill"?

If I want to carry a gun because it makes me feel safer, why does it matter to you? Whether it actually makes me safer or puts me in danger is clearly a topic people want to debate. But, unless you see me tap it on the MARTA turnstyle to use its express pass capability, you will never know if I have a gun on me or not. Do you maybe think that my having a gun somehow puts you in danger? How about if I carry it unloaded? What if I am an off duty police officer (and therefore acting as a private citizen)...should I be able to carry my service weapon in that case?
Why? Because maybe not every gun owner is as responsible as you and maybe I don't want to get accidentally shot by some negligent idiot while riding the train from work. Maybe it's because I don't want to get shot by someone having a bad day at the office (Mark Barton). Maybe it's because my tax dollars are already paying for the MARTA police who are there to provide security.

Why can't I drink while I drive? I mean I know when to cut myself off before getting buzzed...
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:46 AM
 
Location: ITP
2,133 posts, read 5,726,386 times
Reputation: 1353
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
If someone has a gun pointed at you and asks for your wallet or purse and you reach into your vest (or wherever your gun is concealed) to grab your gun you are an idiot. I did not say a person is an idiot for carrying a gun.

Intentionally misinterpreting opposing viewpoints makes your argument less credible.
Come on...give him a break. If Charles Bronson can do it in the movies, I'm sure anyone can.
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:47 AM
 
74 posts, read 641,357 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
That's what I figured, but since you did it twice I thought I'd ask.

So, ok, maybe you could in some circumstances shoot a perp who is committing a crime against someone else. But what if the perp has an friend/accomplice watching from a distance who is also packing and ready to shoot?

Shootout. Advantage: criminal(s)...ALWAYS.
I certainly won't argue with that. If someone wants to pull their gun on a criminal, they are raising the stakes and, as you say, the criminals pretty much always have the advantage which is why, most of the time, you are smarter to leave your concealed weapon concealed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BGS99
Now instead of being a victim of a crime, they are a “gun-toting” victim. And an “idiot”.


If you think they are idiots, that is your right. If they are shot and killed then you will have less "idiots" in this world. If they succeed in stopping the criminal, then there are less criminals free.

There are plenty of examples where these "idiots" have saved countless lives. There are also likely many examples of where the "idiots" have been killed. The idiot/victim needs to use discretion when to use their weapon and when to leave it holstered.

I can think of examples where I would rather have a gun than not. For instance, if someone robs a place where I am located and decides to shoot some people and take me as hostage and, say, puts me in the trunk of their car. If I am lucky enough to not be tied or am able to free myself in transit, I would much rather than the option to have a gun in my hand when they open the trunk then to be lying there without any options.

I could come up with other examples but....

Why should I not be allowed to be a gun-toting idiot? Are you afraid that if I pull my gun then you will get caught in the cross fire? That would seem like a reasonable argument but we are now 6 pages in to this and not a single person (that I have noticed) has said why they want to control whether or not I or anyone else carry a legal, licensed, concealed weapon.
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:49 AM
 
74 posts, read 641,357 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by south-to-west View Post
Why? Because maybe not every gun owner is as responsible as you and maybe I don't want to get accidentally shot by some negligent idiot while riding the train from work. Maybe it's because I don't want to get shot by someone having a bad day at the office (Mark Barton). Maybe it's because my tax dollars are already paying for the MARTA police who are there to provide security.

Why can't I drink while I drive? I mean I know when to cut myself off before getting buzzed...
That seems like a reasonable argument. Thank you.
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:56 AM
JPD
 
12,159 posts, read 15,546,904 times
Reputation: 7931
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlDad View Post
we are now 6 pages in to this and not a single person (that I have noticed) has said why they want to control whether or not I or anyone else carry a legal, licensed, concealed weapon.
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Everything I write on this topic stems from, and is intended to debunk, the "level the playing fieild" argument, which is pure hogwash.

Advantage: criminal(s). ALWAYS.
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Old 04-07-2008, 09:06 AM
 
74 posts, read 641,357 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
Everything I write on this topic stems from, and is intended to debunk, the "level the playing fieild" argument, which is pure hogwash.

Advantage: criminal(s). ALWAYS.
That seems reasonable. I won't argue with you that they do not level the playing field. But, some have also argued that the threat of others having guns may deter (and that can be debated). One could also argue that, even though they would never use it, they feel safer with a gun.

For the record, I don't own a gun and have never even held one. Quite frankly, they make me nervous.

But, I obviously do support people's rights to responsibly carry. I believe I could be convinced it is not possilbe to responsibly carry. I also definitely believe that there are places that people should not be allowed to carry.

I also think cross-fire arguments are valid. I also would agree that the criminals always start with the advantage. But, I can also imagine scenarios where people may be able to overcome the advantage and prevail.


PS. I originally wrote one of my replies with "me" and changed it to "you" since I don't carry but then obviously missed the change in two places which is how I made the mistake.
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