Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is a nice area and a lot of people are moving there. They have every store you need locally and will not be closing. New Businesses are opening as we speak. Trust me DR Horton or any other builder will not approve just anyone. Yea Right LOL. Every area around ATL is booming. Get in now
Do not remember Stome Crest at its Apex, but when I went there for like the second time ever after last Christmas, it seemed okay. At least in line with other second tier malls around Metro Atlanta.....And NOWHERE near the ghost town that is Gwinnett Place. It seemed fairly teeming on a Friday night with a Dillard's, Penny's, and Macy's along with almost any boutique store we usually frequent. After some of the comments I have heard on here, I was expecting MUCH worse. To me, it was rather nice.
Retail has not just been shaking uneasily for awhile. Retail as a whole has been in a state of full-on apocalypse for at least about 4-5 years now. Using the term "BAD" to describe the state of retail does not even begin to fully describe just how bad things are for the retail industry right now, particularly when it comes to bricks-and-mortar retail, which continues to contract at an astonishing rate.
ATLJTL's hopefulness and optimism can only be an asset in this type of situation.
That's as Need4Camaro asks a really good question about what will happen to the other development surrounding the mall itself if Stonecrest Mall does indeed go the direction of Gwinnett Place Mall, and ATLJTL makes a really good point that a mall development like Stonecrest Mall is likely to eventually succumb to the intense pressures of the continuing "Retail Apocalypse," but can still hang in there for the immediate future.
It is apparent that the financial and market conditions for a mall development like Stonecrest Mall clearly appear to be noticeably trending in an unfavorable direction.
But even with that difficult reality, I think that Stonecrest Mall is likely to hang on for a relatively longer time than an almost-dead mall like Gwinnett Place Mall.
To ATLJTL's point, I think that Stonecrest Mall can hang in there for a decent part of the decade of the 2020's.
Though, an economic downturn (which appears to be likely in the not-too-distant future given that the current economic expansion is now officially already the longest on record in U.S. history and is approaching 11 years in age) likely could inflict even more financial harm on the mall than it is already clearly experiencing.
With retail in general only heading in a negative direction at a scary rate of speed, with suburban shopping malls like Stonecrest continuing to fall out of favor the public, and with average incomes continuing to trend lower both in the area around the mall (including in the City of Stonecrest) and in the I-20 East metro Atlanta corridor as a whole, the only thing that I could really see the area around the Stonecrest Mall being good to support is light industrial development like warehouses, logistical companies (trucking companies, etc.) and some light manufacturing.
I know that probably is definitely not what many people would like to hear. But that unfortunately is the very hard reality of the situation right now when it comes to retail.
I think that the mall may continue to stay open for probably at least a decent part of the 2020's decade, and I think that some of the restaurants on the east side of the mall may likely continue to stay open.
Though unfortunately, I think that the Walmart Supercenter may likely be one of the only major bricks-and-mortar retail survivors (if not the only major bricks-and-mortar retail survivor) in the Stonecrest Mall area when all is said and done.
But on the bright side (as minimal of a bright side as it may seem), I do think that the land that the Stonecrest Mall development sits on (starting with the numerous empty graded lots on the west side of Stonecrest Mall) would make a good site for an industrial park consisting of the types of light industrial development that I described above.
B2R, I'm glad ATLTJL is hopeful! That's why I am/was asking why...
I just think that in a city the size of ours, most areas will enjoy some redevelopment within our lifetimes, especially where decent bones are already in place.
Aside from that.. I'm not hopeful for the immediate future of that area.
Then, I know next to nothing about it. But that also says something about it.
I think the Stonecrest-Lithonia area is really good for warehouses and light industrial. Dekalb should have been pushing it.
Admittedly I would really hate to see that happen. There's nice homes down 124 South of the mall where it becomes Rockland Rd and eventually intersects Klondyke. That used to be a very sought after area but turning Stonecrest into a Warehouse area may very well blight it.
Wishful thinking I might have it but if by some miracle MARTA rail is eventually extended to Stonecrest, maybe a decent sight for mixed used while pushing residential / urban transit lifestyle?
Just given the demographics there I feel that the crime in that area would explode if it became industrial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL
I just think that in a city the size of ours, most areas will enjoy some redevelopment within our lifetimes, especially where decent bones are already in place.
Aside from that.. I'm not hopeful for the immediate future of that area.
Then, I know next to nothing about it. But that also says something about it.
Anything is possible and I dont know what the future holds but if the millenial urban living trend holds out, its unlikely for some time as suburban areas, besides highly affluent ones - are getting less and less attention in lue of rebuilding and upgrading old bones in core areas to modern terms while suburban nodes seem to be suffering a bit more in some cases.
Admittedly I would really hate to see that happen. There's nice homes down 124 South of the mall where it becomes Rockland Rd and eventually intersects Klondyke. That used to be a very sought after area but turning Stonecrest into a Warehouse area may very well blight it.
Wishful thinking I might have it but if by some miracle MARTA rail is eventually extended to Stonecrest, maybe a decent sight for mixed used while pushing residential / urban transit lifestyle?
Just given the demographics there I feel that the crime in that area would explode if it became industrial.
Crime probably would not be anymore of a problem than it already is in some parts of the area with a Lithonia address.
Keep in mind that any industrial development that replaced unused retail space in the Stonecrest Mall area would be new construction that would not be aged enough to be blighted.
Also, after awhile, it becomes a point at which the existing retail development in the just simply no longer is able to generate enough revenue to pay into the local tax base.
With a list of major retail departures that includes Target, Sears, Kohls, Sam's Club and Best Buy, it likely will come down to a choice of whether the municipal government of the City of Stonecrest (along with area landowners) wants to hold on to a retail district that, while not as close to the end as an area like Gwinnett Place Mall, is still clearly trending in an unfavorable direction with the continuing loss of so many major retailers, or whether they want to turn to fostering development types that (while not as sexy as a major retail development) will generate some type of meaningful amount of revenue into the local tax base.
And we all know that generating revenue pretty much always wins out in the end.
I do not think that the extension of MARTA out to the Stonecrest Mall area is completely out of the question. But in an environment where transit resources continue to be limited and where there seems to be more interest in and more demand for more densely developed and inhabited areas closer to the city (particularly inside of the I-285 Perimeter), I'm not sure if extending MARTA rail service out to an area of declining retail development at and around Stonecrest Mall will be a top priority anytime soon.
Other challenges for the Stonecrest Mall development are that:
> It is relatively isolated away from more in-demand areas closer to and in the urban core of the Atlanta metro area inside and around the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter...
> And that it is a declining retail district (anchored by a challenged enclosed regional shopping mall in an era when malls are in very steep decline and when bricks-and-mortar retail is in extreme contraction) in an area (the I-20 East corridor of metro Atlanta) that is over-retailed for the increasingly modest average incomes it features (… the Stonecrest Mall area has to compete directly with a large cluster of retail about 7 miles to the east in the area of I-20 and GA-20/138 in Conyers)…
Replacing the retail in and around Stonecrest Mall with industrial development would not be out of spite, but would just merely be an acknowledgement of the fact that there just simply is not enough demand for the amount of retail space that now exists in that area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
Anything is possible and I dont know what the future holds but if the millenial urban living trend holds out, its unlikely for some time as suburban areas, besides highly affluent ones - are getting less and less attention in lue of rebuilding and upgrading old bones in core areas to modern terms while suburban nodes seem to be suffering a bit more in some cases.
These comments raise a very important point: That one of the (many) factors that is working against a development like Stonecrest Mall moving forward, is the larger societal trend of many younger professionals away from suburban areas (like a Stonecrest Mall and I-20 East corridor) towards more urbanized mixed-use neighborhoods and districts in areas closer to the urban core.
Combine that with average incomes and buying power in the surrounding area that overall is stagnant and declining, and a retail marketplace that continues to be in a state of extreme contraction entering the first year of the 2020's decade (with an economic slowdown possible in the not-too-distant future) and one might see why there may be some onlookers who may not be the most optimistic about the long-term health of an area like Stonecrest Mall.
Last edited by Born 2 Roll; 01-28-2020 at 06:39 PM..
Do not remember Stome Crest at its Apex, but when I went there for like the second time ever after last Christmas, it seemed okay. At least in line with other second tier malls around Metro Atlanta.....And NOWHERE near the ghost town that is Gwinnett Place. It seemed fairly teeming on a Friday night with a Dillard's, Penny's, and Macy's along with almost any boutique store we usually frequent. After some of the comments I have heard on here, I was expecting MUCH worse. To me, it was rather nice.
Do not remember Stome Crest at its Apex, but when I went there for like the second time ever after last Christmas, it seemed okay. At least in line with other second tier malls around Metro Atlanta.....And NOWHERE near the ghost town that is Gwinnett Place. It seemed fairly teeming on a Friday night with a Dillard's, Penny's, and Macy's along with almost any boutique store we usually frequent. After some of the comments I have heard on here, I was expecting MUCH worse. To me, it was rather nice.
&
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
That was my impression, too.
I believe Gwinnett Place Mall's death was unintentionally induced more or less. With the construction of North Lake Mall which cut into its shopper base and eventually Mall of Georgia, which was basically the nail in the coffin so to speak - it has too much to compete against within its proximity where as Stonecrest is still the 'major' retail hub within its vicinity. Gwinnett Place probably died earlier than it would have had Mall of Georgia not been conceived and would possibly still be on par with Stonecrest in terms of activity, although I can't guarantee this given the huge demographic shift in that area as well.
I believe Gwinnett Place Mall's death was unintentionally induced more or less. With the construction of North Lake Mall which cut into its shopper base and eventually Mall of Georgia, which was basically the nail in the coffin so to speak - it has too much to compete against within its proximity where as Stonecrest is still the 'major' retail hub within its vicinity. Gwinnett Place probably died earlier than it would have had Mall of Georgia not been conceived and would possibly still be on par with Stonecrest in terms of activity, although I can't guarantee this given the huge demographic shift in that area as well.
Those are excellent points.
Gwinnett Place Mall's decline began with the opening of North Point Mall in North Fulton County in 1993, and continued with the opening of the Mall of Georgia in 1999 and Discovery Mills Mall (now Sugarloaf Mills Mall) in 2001.
(… It probably should be noted that 2 of the 3 aforementioned malls that took business away from Gwinnett Place Mall (North Point Mall and Sugarloaf Mills Mall) are now experiencing some significant struggles of their own.)
The roughly 12 Walmart Supercenters in Gwinnett County and the opening of shopping developments like The Forum on Peachtree Parkway and The Shoppes at Webb Gin along with the rise of multiple major retail districts in other parts of the county (like along GA-124/Snellville, GA-120 & L'ville-Suwanee Rd in Lawrenceville, GA-124/Hamilton Mill, etc.) along with the ongoing decline in bricks-and-mortar retail shopping have all combined to take business away from a mature retail development like Gwinnett Place Mall.
(… The area of metro Atlanta where Gwinnett Place Mall is located (in Gwinnett County and Northeast metro Atlanta) has long had an exceedingly developer-friendly/development-minded culture, so Gwinnett Place Mall most likely was always bound to receive competition from numerous other, newer retail developments... So, unfortunately, the decline of Gwinnett Place Mall was likely 'baked in the cake' from the beginning with its location in an extremely fast-growing and fast-evolving developer-friendly/development-minded area in Gwinnett County and Northeast metro Atlanta.)
That is a really good point that Stonecrest Mall does not have anywhere near quite the amount of competition in the I-20 East corridor of suburban metro Atlanta that a Gwinnett Place Mall does in suburban Northeast metro Atlanta.
But Stonecrest Mall has its own serious problems in being located in a part of metro Atlanta (along the I-20 East corridor) that was very significantly affected by the housing crisis and the Great Recession, and being located in a part of metro Atlanta where average incomes and buying power appears to be either stagnant or declining.
Stonecrest Mall has also some significant competition of its own from at least 3 Walmart Supercenters (at I-20 & Panola Rd in Lithonia, in Conyers and directly across Turner Hill Road in Stonecrest itself) and a significant cluster of retail at I-20 and GA-20/138 in Conyers.
Plus Stonecrest has experienced a series of major retail departures of its own (Sears, Kohls, Target, Sam's Club, Best Buy, etc.), with 2 anchor store spots at Stonecrest Mall itself sitting empty (where Sears and Kohl's used to be).
As other posters have noted, even with the apparent overall decline in average incomes in the area, there is still at least a modest amount of financial support for the remaining stores and restaurants coming from the still notable amount of black middle-class professional households in the area.
But Stonecrest Mall still has many factors that will increasingly be working against its continued survival in coming years.
Stonecrest Mall itself appears to be in comparatively better shape than a development like Gwinnett Place Mall. But unfortunately, that does not appear to be saying too much at this point in time of 'apocalyptic' conditions for retail.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
