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Yeah, especially Lawrenceville's. But again it's just not as big of a deal as Marietta. Lawrenceville has big plans though, they want a bigger and better lively downtown beyond just the immediate square.
Suwanee's town center is newly built, and suburban cookie cutter, kinda. Don't get me wrong, it's really nice, it just doesn't feel authentic historic. It's not as bad as Smyrna's 'Market Village' atrocity (the worst, fakest downtown of the metro, sadly), but it just has a vibe like you're at Mall of GA or something.
People newer to Gwinnett maybe aren't aware of this, but Suwanee had an actual real historic downtown, further south at Main St and Scales Rd area:
But then in the early 2000's I guess they decided to basically abandon that spot and move everything up to an all-new downtown development at the corner of Buford Hwy and Suwanee Dam/Lville Suwanne Rd.
Downtown Duluth is the one to watch- they have some cool developments going on, they are trying for it.
I think Smyrna's Market Village works very well. I think the model that Smyrna has used would be a great blueprint for communities and municipalities across Metro Atlanta--an excellent way to foster community, foster togetherness, and build a sense of place. This will be especially important if we begin to "township municipalize" across the Metro--which is something I think we should be striving for.
Along with Smyrna's Market Village, the other areas that I think would be good models for communities, cities, and townships across the Metro:
Crabapple
Vinings Jubilee
Birmingham Crossroads
Suwanee
Downtown Sandy Springs
Serenbe
Roswell's Canton Street
I will compare Cobb and Gwinnett counties in the following areas:
Location
Topography/Setting
Amenities
Jobs/Economy
Schools
Diversity
Crime/Safety
Roads/Transportation
Parks/Recreation
Housing/Land Use
Affordability/Cost
Government/Taxation
Let's begin...
Location
Overall, Cobb is closer to Atlanta than Gwinnett is. Marietta, a central location in Cobb, is 15 miles away from Atlanta. This is comparable to Gwinnett's closest-in locale, Norcross. Meanwhile, Lawrenceville, a central location in Gwinnett, is 25 miles away from Atlanta. This is comparable to Cobb's farthest-out locale, Acworth. Cobb is almost entirely "suburban" with some "urban" areas near 285 (Cumberland/Vinings). Gwinnett is mostly "suburban", with a lot of "exurban" areas at its fringes (Dacula, Buford/Hamilton Mill). This means that Cobb is simply...closer...to amenities, jobs, etc. overall. One can reach Downtown/Midtown/Buckhead in 15 minutes from parts of Cobb without traffic. This is simply impossible from Gwinnett. Besides, Cobb is much closer to the Airport
Cobb wins this round
(Cobb 1, Gwinnett 0)
Topography/Setting
Cobb and Gwinnett are both situated among gently rolling, forested hills near the Chattahoochee River in Georgia's piedmont region. Both have a large lakes partially within their borders (Allatoona in Cobb and Lanier in Gwinnett). However, Cobb has several "mountains" within its boundaries, such as Kennesaw Mountain (the only real mountain), Sweat Mountain, Pine Mountain, Lost Mountain, and Mount Wilkinson. Gwinnett has no mountains. This makes Cobb county slightly more interesting to me.
Cobb wins this round
(Cobb 2, Gwinnett 0)
Amenities
Cobb and Gwinnett are both littered with suburban-style stripmalls and shopping centers full of big-box stores. Cobb has two declining malls (Cumberland and Town Center). Gwinnett has a dead mall (Gwinnett Place), a declining mall (Sugarloaf Mills) and a thriving mall (Mall of Georgia). Cobb has two "outdoor malls" (The Avenue and The Battery), and Gwinnett has one "outdoor mall" (The Forum) with another in the works (Revel). For large events such as concerts, Cobb has the Galleria, and Gwinnett has Infinite Energy Arena. For pro sports, Cobb has the edge, as they have the Atlanta Braves (Major League Baseball), Atlanta United 2 (USL Soccer), and Atlanta Blaze (Outdoor Lacrosse). Meanwhile, Gwinnett has the Gwinnett Stipers (Minor League Baseball) and the Georgia Swarm (Indoor Lacrosse). Cobb has more museums, while Gwinnett has more religious amenities, such as the BAPS Hindu temple in Lilburn, the largest outside India. Each has a general-use airport (Cobb County Airport in Kennesaw, Gwinnett County Airport in Lawrenceville). Each county has an abundance of amenities catered to various ethnic groups, Gwinnett slightly more so. Nightlife is not great in either county. Overall, narrow victory for Cobb.
Cobb wins this round
(Cobb 3, Gwinnett 0)
Jobs/Economy
Cobb and Gwinnett both have healthy, growing economies with an abundance of good-paying jobs. Cobb has major centers of employment at Cumberland, the Dobbins AFB area, and Kennesaw at the junction of 75 and 575. Gwinnett has major centers of employment at Peachtree Corners/Technology Park, along 85 in Norcross, in Duluth at the junction of 85 and 316, and in Suwanee along 85. Both counties enjoy fairly low rates of unemployment and poverty, and each county has a higher-than-average median household income. Cobb has a noticeably larger share of upper-income residents when compared to Gwinnett. I attribute this to Cobb's closer location to North Fulton/Perimeter/City of Atlanta centers of employment. For Fortune 500 companies, Cobb has Home Depot and HD Supply Holdings. Gwinnett has AGCO and NCR (NCR recently moved their HQ from Duluth to Midtown, but they still maintain a large office presence in Duluth). Tie
Cobb and Gwinnett tie
(Cobb 4, Gwinnett 1)
Schools
Cobb and Gwinnett public schools are both high-quality systems overall, some of the best in the southeast and the nation, in fact. Each has several top-tier school clusters, Cobb with slightly more (Walton, Pope, Lassiter, Kennesaw Mountain, Harrison, Wheeler Magnet in Cobb. GSMST, North Gwinnett, Brookwood in Gwinnett). Although Cobb has more top schools in upper-middle class areas, Gwinnett excels in providing quality educational outcomes for at-risk and historically underperfoming student demographics. This is especially evident in the Norcross, Parkview, Duluth, Peachtree Ridge, Grayson, Archer, Dacula, Mountain View, Lanier, and Collins Hill clusters. These clusters are located in middle-class areas or areas with income diversity (high and low income students). Cobb has a few clusters like this as well, such as the Campbell and Sprayberry clusters. The worst school clusters in each county are "okay", but not awful. Each county has several private schools to choose from. Each county has a large four-year university (Kennesaw State in Cobb, Georgia Gwinnett in Gwinnett), as well as technical colleges (Chattahoochee Tech in Cobb, Gwinnett Tech in Gwinnett). Another tie.
Cobb and Gwinnett tie
(Cobb 5, Gwinnett 2)
Diversity
Cobb and Gwinnett are both diverse. However, Gwinnett is very diverse. It is the most diverse county in the southeast, and the 5th most diverse county in the nation, according to niche.com. According to latest estimates from the American Community Survey, Cobb is 53.1% White (Non-Hispanic), 26.3% Black, 12.8% Hispanic, and 5.1% Asian. Gwinnett is 39.3% White (Non-Hispanic), 25.9% Black, 20.7% Hispanic, and 11.2% Asian. Cobb is more homogeneous than Gwinnett: Whites are clustered in East and West Cobb, Hispanics are clustered in South-Central Cobb, and Blacks are clustered in South Cobb, with exceptions. In Gwinnett, whites are clustered in along the Chattahoochee River (Peachtree Corners, Berkeley Lake, Suwanee) as well as in the Parkview-Brookwood-Grayson corridor north of 78, as well as the Hamilton Mill area and Buford, but whites can be found throughout Gwinnett. Blacks are spread out throughout most of Gwinnett, but are most heavily concentrated south of 78. Hispanics are clustered north of 29 between Norcross and Lawrenceville, but are also found throughout the rest of Gwinnett. Asians are concentrated around Duluth, but are fairly spread out as well. In short, Gwinnett is more integrated, and less segregated, than Cobb. Gwinnett is also more income-diverse than Cobb. In Gwinnett, one can find upper-middle class, middle class, and lower middle-class within a few miles of each other throughout the county, with some exception. In Cobb, the upper-middle class, middle-class, and lower-middle class are largely separate from one another, with some exceptions. Gwinnett wins this round.
Gwinnett wins this round
(Cobb 5, Gwinnett 3)
Crime/Safety
Both Cobb and Gwinnett have slightly higher than average crime rates when compared to the nation as a whole. On a scale of 1 (low crime) to 100 (high crime), Cobb's violent crime index is 40.5, and its property crime index is 41.5. This compares to Gwinnett's violent crime index of 42.5, and its property crime index of 41.1. Each county has plenty of "safe" areas, and each county also has "seedy" or "shady" areas. There are no "completely avoid" areas in either county like one may find in parts of the City of Atlanta. There is a fair amount of gang activity in each county. Tie
Cobb and Gwinnett tie
(Cobb 6, Gwinnett 4)
Roads/Transportation
Cobb and Gwinnett both have awful rush-hour traffic, as well as awful traffic during the day in certain places. Cobb has 75, 285, and 575. Gwinnett has 85, 316, 985, and PIB. Neither county has MARTA or commuter rail, but both counties have inefficient, underfunded bus services, as well as regional Xpress buses. Both counties are 10 years behind infrastructure demand. This is compared to places in Texas or Florida, which are often 10 years ahead. The uncontrolled sprawl in both counties has led to an inefficient road network. Cobb just completed the "Northwest Corridor" toll lanes along 75 and 575. Gwinnett just extended their toll lanes to Hamilton Mill road. Tie, but neither county gets a point this round! If Gwinnett votes to join MARTA this March and actually builds a station along Jimmy Carter to extend the Gold line, they will win this round in the future.
Cobb and Gwinnett tie, no points awarded
(Cobb 6, Gwinnett 4)
Parks/Recreation
Cobb has a fair amount of decent parks scattered throughout the county. Gwinnett has a lot of large, high quality parks throughout the county. In my opinion, Gwinnett county has the best parks system in the southeast, and it is not a close competiton. Gwinnett has several truly massive parks that one can quite literally get lost in, such as Tribble Mill Park, Harbins Park, Little Mulberry Park, and Settles Bridge Park. The only parks in Cobb that compare to these are areas of the Chattahoochee NRA (Cochran Shoals and Gold Branch), as well as Kennesaw Mountain National Battlefield. None of these are county-run like the aforementioned parks in Gwinnett. Gwinnett also has access to the Chattahoochee NRA, like Cobb. While both counties have bike paths, Gwinnett's system is more extensive, and there are plans to extend it more. Cities in Gwinnett county are known for their festivals, such as Duluth's Fall Festival at the Town Green and the several that occur at Suwanee's Town Center. Each county has a large lake for boating and fishing (Lake Allatoona in Cobb, Lake Lanier in Gwinnett). Gwinnett county has superior youth and high-school level sports programs, although both counties are very good in this area. Gwinnett is well-known for its high school football, and it is the 4th most recruited county in the nation for college football programs. Cobb is known for its exceptional baseball programs, but not as much as Gwinnett's football programs. Gwinnett takes this one.
Gwinnett wins this round
(Cobb 6, Gwinnett 5)
Housing/Land Use
Both Cobb and Gwinnett are full of suburban sprawl. Both counties have a fairly diverse housing stock. Both counties have a few walkable town centers, with Cobb's downtown Marietta being the best known and highest quality. Cobb also has the "downtowns" of Smyrna and Acworth. Gwinnett has the "downtowns" of Norcross, Duluth, Suwanee, Buford, and Lawrenceville. Both counties have clusters of old, rundown apartments as well as clusters of million-dollar+ single-family homes. Both counties are equally good and bad in this category. Tie
Cobb and Gwinnett tie
(Cobb 7, Gwinnett 6)
Affordablity/Cost
In both counties, it is possible, but increasingly difficult, to live a middle-class lifestyle in a good school cluster with an affordable home. This is the case almost everywhere in Metro Atlanta, as well as the United States overall. The median home value in Gwinnett is $227,200 compared to Cobb's $254,200. I attribute this, once again, to Cobb's superior location. However, Gwinnett's median household income is $64,496, compared to $72,004 in Cobb. This means that the median home value to median household income ratio in Gwinnett is 3.52, compared to 3.53 in Cobb. As a result, the income to cost of living ratio is nearly the same. Tie
Cobb and Gwinnett tie
(Cobb 8, Gwinnett 7)
Government/Taxation
Both Cobb and Gwinnett have experienced plently of bad governance/corruption/lack of representation/scandals in recent years. Recently, the Cobb County commission decided to allow SunTrust Park (Braves Stadium) to be built using mostly taxpayer money, without taxpayer approval. Now, the residents of Cobb are paying for it in the form of property tax hikes, increased fees, and reduced services. There was talk of shutting down libraries at one point: https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt-...9O82jY34YyOQJ/ . Also, Cobb's goverment/elected officials have been very anti-transit even though a majority of Cobb residents are in favor of MARTA expansion into the county. In Gwinnett, the anti-transit county commission (there's a theme here) voted to hold a MARTA referendum as a costly special election in March. The referendum could have easily been held during the general election in November. Many people suspect that the commission decided to hold the referendum in March to avoid predicted high turnout from liberal and democratic voters in the general election, who overwhelmingly support MARTA's expansion. By holding the referendum in March, it has been suspected that the anti-transit Gwinnett commission was hoping to benefit from the lower, more conservative, more republican historical off-year election turnout. This group is mostly not in favor of MARTA expansion in the county: https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt-...ujcSuANbiiLKO/ . These examples are simply the most recent and most notable in each county; many other shenanigans have occurred in each county. Also, the commissions of each county have been criticized for not being representative of their diverse constituency (Until very recently, each commission has been composed almost entirely of white, republican males for the past few decades). Each county has similar property and sales tax rates. Tie, but no points are awarded!
Cobb and Gwinnett tie, no points awarded
(Cobb 8, Gwinnett 7)
Overall, one can't go wrong in either Cobb or Gwinnett. However, in my opinion, Cobb has the slight edge over Gwinnett at this point in time.
FINAL SCORE
COBB 8, GWINNETT 7
Cobb wins the game!
A good, decent post overall. Especially the part about the schools.
A few things:
1. I would say Sweat Mountain is a "real" mountain as well. Lost Mountain too.
2. Cobb County has...The Avenue East Cobb and The Avenue West Cobb.
3. Gwinnett County also has...The Shoppes at Webb Gin (formerly The Avenue Webb Gin).
4. I would not say Cumberland and Town Center are declining malls. Though I do say Town Center needs a serious "re-boosting" and its large trade area has the demographics and income to support it. The mall and corresponding area should also be re-named and re-branded.
5. I would classify the Parkview cluster as more upper-middle class, even though there is income diversity like you mentioned.
I'm partial to Gwinnett, just from familiarity. Has absolutely nothing to do with a couple of dating misadventures in Cobb...nothing at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech
But then in the early 2000's I guess they decided to basically abandon that spot and move everything up to an all-new downtown development at the corner of Buford Hwy and Suwanee Dam/Lville Suwanne Rd.
A big reason for that [aside from sheer lack of room to expand] is that Suwanee, in the early 2000s, was looking to brand itself as the quintessential suburban bedroom community after the Falcons training camp left. And why not? They were the next logical outward progression positioned directly between the then-still-thriving Gwinnett Place and the newly-built Mall of Georgia. They even started showing up on a few prestigious Best Places To Live lists. And, so, a new town center was built on a unused parcel of forest, on high ground, at a high-traffic intersection, complete with a new city hall visible for a few miles, as a nucleus to build a community identity around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech
Downtown Duluth is the one to watch- they have some cool developments going on, they are trying for it.
^ Yes they do! I'm so glad I moved within walking distance of it, too. I just wish the coffeeshop that was there had hung on during all the construction they were doing across the street [while Parsons Alley was being re-built].
Whether it "works" is not the point. It's a fake plastic facade, a cookie cutter drive-to-urbanism modern strip mall disguised as a downtown.
They had so much potential with that area with its history. It's not even about the parking, to me it's more about that design. Just something about it.
I will compare Cobb and Gwinnett counties in the following areas:
Location
Topography/Setting
Amenities
Jobs/Economy
Schools
Diversity
Crime/Safety
Roads/Transportation
Parks/Recreation
Housing/Land Use
Affordability/Cost
Government/Taxation
Let's begin...
Location
Overall, Cobb is closer to Atlanta than Gwinnett is. Marietta, a central location in Cobb, is 15 miles away from Atlanta. This is comparable to Gwinnett's closest-in locale, Norcross. Meanwhile, Lawrenceville, a central location in Gwinnett, is 25 miles away from Atlanta. This is comparable to Cobb's farthest-out locale, Acworth. Cobb is almost entirely "suburban" with some "urban" areas near 285 (Cumberland/Vinings). Gwinnett is mostly "suburban", with a lot of "exurban" areas at its fringes (Dacula, Buford/Hamilton Mill). This means that Cobb is simply...closer...to amenities, jobs, etc. overall. One can reach Downtown/Midtown/Buckhead in 15 minutes from parts of Cobb without traffic. This is simply impossible from Gwinnett. Besides, Cobb is much closer to the Airport
Cobb wins this round
(Cobb 1, Gwinnett 0)
Topography/Setting
Cobb and Gwinnett are both situated among gently rolling, forested hills near the Chattahoochee River in Georgia's piedmont region. Both have a large lakes partially within their borders (Allatoona in Cobb and Lanier in Gwinnett). However, Cobb has several "mountains" within its boundaries, such as Kennesaw Mountain (the only real mountain), Sweat Mountain, Pine Mountain, Lost Mountain, and Mount Wilkinson. Gwinnett has no mountains. This makes Cobb county slightly more interesting to me.
Cobb wins this round
(Cobb 2, Gwinnett 0)
Amenities
Cobb and Gwinnett are both littered with suburban-style stripmalls and shopping centers full of big-box stores. Cobb has two declining malls (Cumberland and Town Center). Gwinnett has a dead mall (Gwinnett Place), a declining mall (Sugarloaf Mills) and a thriving mall (Mall of Georgia). Cobb has two "outdoor malls" (The Avenue and The Battery), and Gwinnett has one "outdoor mall" (The Forum) with another in the works (Revel). For large events such as concerts, Cobb has the Galleria, and Gwinnett has Infinite Energy Arena. For pro sports, Cobb has the edge, as they have the Atlanta Braves (Major League Baseball), Atlanta United 2 (USL Soccer), and Atlanta Blaze (Outdoor Lacrosse). Meanwhile, Gwinnett has the Gwinnett Stipers (Minor League Baseball) and the Georgia Swarm (Indoor Lacrosse). Cobb has more museums, while Gwinnett has more religious amenities, such as the BAPS Hindu temple in Lilburn, the largest outside India. Each has a general-use airport (Cobb County Airport in Kennesaw, Gwinnett County Airport in Lawrenceville). Each county has an abundance of amenities catered to various ethnic groups, Gwinnett slightly more so. Nightlife is not great in either county. Overall, narrow victory for Cobb.
Cobb wins this round
(Cobb 3, Gwinnett 0)
Jobs/Economy
Cobb and Gwinnett both have healthy, growing economies with an abundance of good-paying jobs. Cobb has major centers of employment at Cumberland, the Dobbins AFB area, and Kennesaw at the junction of 75 and 575. Gwinnett has major centers of employment at Peachtree Corners/Technology Park, along 85 in Norcross, in Duluth at the junction of 85 and 316, and in Suwanee along 85. Both counties enjoy fairly low rates of unemployment and poverty, and each county has a higher-than-average median household income. Cobb has a noticeably larger share of upper-income residents when compared to Gwinnett. I attribute this to Cobb's closer location to North Fulton/Perimeter/City of Atlanta centers of employment. For Fortune 500 companies, Cobb has Home Depot and HD Supply Holdings. Gwinnett has AGCO and NCR (NCR recently moved their HQ from Duluth to Midtown, but they still maintain a large office presence in Duluth). Tie
Cobb and Gwinnett tie
(Cobb 4, Gwinnett 1)
Schools
Cobb and Gwinnett public schools are both high-quality systems overall, some of the best in the southeast and the nation, in fact. Each has several top-tier school clusters, Cobb with slightly more (Walton, Pope, Lassiter, Kennesaw Mountain, Harrison, Wheeler Magnet in Cobb. GSMST, North Gwinnett, Brookwood in Gwinnett). Although Cobb has more top schools in upper-middle class areas, Gwinnett excels in providing quality educational outcomes for at-risk and historically underperfoming student demographics. This is especially evident in the Norcross, Parkview, Duluth, Peachtree Ridge, Grayson, Archer, Dacula, Mountain View, Lanier, and Collins Hill clusters. These clusters are located in middle-class areas or areas with income diversity (high and low income students). Cobb has a few clusters like this as well, such as the Campbell and Sprayberry clusters. The worst school clusters in each county are "okay", but not awful. Each county has several private schools to choose from. Each county has a large four-year university (Kennesaw State in Cobb, Georgia Gwinnett in Gwinnett), as well as technical colleges (Chattahoochee Tech in Cobb, Gwinnett Tech in Gwinnett). Another tie.
Cobb and Gwinnett tie
(Cobb 5, Gwinnett 2)
Diversity
Cobb and Gwinnett are both diverse. However, Gwinnett is very diverse. It is the most diverse county in the southeast, and the 5th most diverse county in the nation, according to niche.com. According to latest estimates from the American Community Survey, Cobb is 53.1% White (Non-Hispanic), 26.3% Black, 12.8% Hispanic, and 5.1% Asian. Gwinnett is 39.3% White (Non-Hispanic), 25.9% Black, 20.7% Hispanic, and 11.2% Asian. Cobb is more homogeneous than Gwinnett: Whites are clustered in East and West Cobb, Hispanics are clustered in South-Central Cobb, and Blacks are clustered in South Cobb, with exceptions. In Gwinnett, whites are clustered in along the Chattahoochee River (Peachtree Corners, Berkeley Lake, Suwanee) as well as in the Parkview-Brookwood-Grayson corridor north of 78, as well as the Hamilton Mill area and Buford, but whites can be found throughout Gwinnett. Blacks are spread out throughout most of Gwinnett, but are most heavily concentrated south of 78. Hispanics are clustered north of 29 between Norcross and Lawrenceville, but are also found throughout the rest of Gwinnett. Asians are concentrated around Duluth, but are fairly spread out as well. In short, Gwinnett is more integrated, and less segregated, than Cobb. Gwinnett is also more income-diverse than Cobb. In Gwinnett, one can find upper-middle class, middle class, and lower middle-class within a few miles of each other throughout the county, with some exception. In Cobb, the upper-middle class, middle-class, and lower-middle class are largely separate from one another, with some exceptions. Gwinnett wins this round.
Gwinnett wins this round
(Cobb 5, Gwinnett 3)
Crime/Safety
Both Cobb and Gwinnett have slightly higher than average crime rates when compared to the nation as a whole. On a scale of 1 (low crime) to 100 (high crime), Cobb's violent crime index is 40.5, and its property crime index is 41.5. This compares to Gwinnett's violent crime index of 42.5, and its property crime index of 41.1. Each county has plenty of "safe" areas, and each county also has "seedy" or "shady" areas. There are no "completely avoid" areas in either county like one may find in parts of the City of Atlanta. There is a fair amount of gang activity in each county. Tie
Cobb and Gwinnett tie
(Cobb 6, Gwinnett 4)
Roads/Transportation
Cobb and Gwinnett both have awful rush-hour traffic, as well as awful traffic during the day in certain places. Cobb has 75, 285, and 575. Gwinnett has 85, 316, 985, and PIB. Neither county has MARTA or commuter rail, but both counties have inefficient, underfunded bus services, as well as regional Xpress buses. Both counties are 10 years behind infrastructure demand. This is compared to places in Texas or Florida, which are often 10 years ahead. The uncontrolled sprawl in both counties has led to an inefficient road network. Cobb just completed the "Northwest Corridor" toll lanes along 75 and 575. Gwinnett just extended their toll lanes to Hamilton Mill road. Tie, but neither county gets a point this round! If Gwinnett votes to join MARTA this March and actually builds a station along Jimmy Carter to extend the Gold line, they will win this round in the future.
Cobb and Gwinnett tie, no points awarded
(Cobb 6, Gwinnett 4)
Parks/Recreation
Cobb has a fair amount of decent parks scattered throughout the county. Gwinnett has a lot of large, high quality parks throughout the county. In my opinion, Gwinnett county has the best parks system in the southeast, and it is not a close competiton. Gwinnett has several truly massive parks that one can quite literally get lost in, such as Tribble Mill Park, Harbins Park, Little Mulberry Park, and Settles Bridge Park. The only parks in Cobb that compare to these are areas of the Chattahoochee NRA (Cochran Shoals and Gold Branch), as well as Kennesaw Mountain National Battlefield. None of these are county-run like the aforementioned parks in Gwinnett. Gwinnett also has access to the Chattahoochee NRA, like Cobb. While both counties have bike paths, Gwinnett's system is more extensive, and there are plans to extend it more. Cities in Gwinnett county are known for their festivals, such as Duluth's Fall Festival at the Town Green and the several that occur at Suwanee's Town Center. Each county has a large lake for boating and fishing (Lake Allatoona in Cobb, Lake Lanier in Gwinnett). Gwinnett county has superior youth and high-school level sports programs, although both counties are very good in this area. Gwinnett is well-known for its high school football, and it is the 4th most recruited county in the nation for college football programs. Cobb is known for its exceptional baseball programs, but not as much as Gwinnett's football programs. Gwinnett takes this one.
Gwinnett wins this round
(Cobb 6, Gwinnett 5)
Housing/Land Use
Both Cobb and Gwinnett are full of suburban sprawl. Both counties have a fairly diverse housing stock. Both counties have a few walkable town centers, with Cobb's downtown Marietta being the best known and highest quality. Cobb also has the "downtowns" of Smyrna and Acworth. Gwinnett has the "downtowns" of Norcross, Duluth, Suwanee, Buford, and Lawrenceville. Both counties have clusters of old, rundown apartments as well as clusters of million-dollar+ single-family homes. Both counties are equally good and bad in this category. Tie
Cobb and Gwinnett tie
(Cobb 7, Gwinnett 6)
Affordablity/Cost
In both counties, it is possible, but increasingly difficult, to live a middle-class lifestyle in a good school cluster with an affordable home. This is the case almost everywhere in Metro Atlanta, as well as the United States overall. The median home value in Gwinnett is $227,200 compared to Cobb's $254,200. I attribute this, once again, to Cobb's superior location. However, Gwinnett's median household income is $64,496, compared to $72,004 in Cobb. This means that the median home value to median household income ratio in Gwinnett is 3.52, compared to 3.53 in Cobb. As a result, the income to cost of living ratio is nearly the same. Tie
Cobb and Gwinnett tie
(Cobb 8, Gwinnett 7)
Government/Taxation
Both Cobb and Gwinnett have experienced plently of bad governance/corruption/lack of representation/scandals in recent years. Recently, the Cobb County commission decided to allow SunTrust Park (Braves Stadium) to be built using mostly taxpayer money, without taxpayer approval. Now, the residents of Cobb are paying for it in the form of property tax hikes, increased fees, and reduced services. There was talk of shutting down libraries at one point: https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt-...9O82jY34YyOQJ/ . Also, Cobb's goverment/elected officials have been very anti-transit even though a majority of Cobb residents are in favor of MARTA expansion into the county. In Gwinnett, the anti-transit county commission (there's a theme here) voted to hold a MARTA referendum as a costly special election in March. The referendum could have easily been held during the general election in November. Many people suspect that the commission decided to hold the referendum in March to avoid predicted high turnout from liberal and democratic voters in the general election, who overwhelmingly support MARTA's expansion. By holding the referendum in March, it has been suspected that the anti-transit Gwinnett commission was hoping to benefit from the lower, more conservative, more republican historical off-year election turnout. This group is mostly not in favor of MARTA expansion in the county: https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt-...ujcSuANbiiLKO/ . These examples are simply the most recent and most notable in each county; many other shenanigans have occurred in each county. Also, the commissions of each county have been criticized for not being representative of their diverse constituency (Until very recently, each commission has been composed almost entirely of white, republican males for the past few decades). Each county has similar property and sales tax rates. Tie, but no points are awarded!
Cobb and Gwinnett tie, no points awarded
(Cobb 8, Gwinnett 7)
Overall, one can't go wrong in either Cobb or Gwinnett. However, in my opinion, Cobb has the slight edge over Gwinnett at this point in time.
FINAL SCORE
COBB 8, GWINNETT 7
Cobb wins the game!
Wow! Thanks for putting so much thought into this. Nice read.
Whether it "works" is not the point. It's a fake plastic facade, a cookie cutter drive-to-urbanism modern strip mall disguised as a downtown.
They had so much potential with that area with its history. It's not even about the parking, to me it's more about that design. Just something about it.
What history? Smyrna never had a developed town center. What little bit of a downtown they had got wiped out with the widening of Atlanta Road. It's not like a Woodstock or Acworth that had good bones to begin with. Yes, the design might be a little less than perfect but it isn't bad at all. Would rather they have used red bricks than yellow, but hey, it's still very pleasing overall.
What history? Smyrna never had a developed town center. What little bit of a downtown they had got wiped out with the widening of Atlanta Road. It's not like a Woodstock or Acworth that had good bones to begin with. Yes, the design might be a little less than perfect but it isn't bad at all. Would rather they have used red bricks than yellow, but hey, it's still very pleasing overall.
I find it completely horrible. It's too "showcase-y" in that one spot, with the fountain and the bricks and the big speed bumps. Just looks so... fake.
What they should have done is built more of a regular traditional connected square street grid in the whole area, more like Avalon or Atlantic Station or Battery did, with not just Spring St but also Bank St and Stephens St and the others all criss crossing and running up to Atlanta Rd and Concord Rd.
I find it completely horrible. It's too "showcase-y" in that one spot, with the fountain and the bricks and the big speed bumps. Just looks so... fake.
What they should have done is built more of a regular traditional connected square street grid in the whole area, more like Avalon or Atlantic Station or Battery did, with not just Spring St but also Bank St and Stephens St and the others all criss crossing and running up to Atlanta Rd and Concord Rd.
I dunno, just hard to explain.
I don't know why that can't still be accomplished, the grid is there. And would look more realistic in the long run if it happens organically and piecemeal rather than the ultra master planned areas you mention. You gotta at least give it props that it isn't a big box row with acres of asphalt in front.
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