GDOT releases visualization video of proposed GA 400 express toll lanes (Atlanta: cost, dangerous)

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by Gulch

As much as I hate the project, I don't think "blocking Red Line extension" would be grounds for a lawsuit unless it could be proven that GDOT was deliberate in doing so against MARTA's wishes, which doesn't seem to be the case here.

They're not. But they've made it much, much more difficult to extend the Red Line, especially through Sandy Springs where ROW is tighter.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bu2

Lack of left turn lanes (or short ones) is another.

The lack of left turn lanes is a huge source of delays in the ATL.

Another factor is allowing road work, delivery trucks and other lane blocking behavior during peak travel hours. That is ridiculous. One delivery truck can drastically reduce traffic movement on a major road, obstructing thousands of people.

Potholes take a toll as well. People try to navigate around them or slow down to avoid blowing out their tires.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by arjay57

The lack of left turn lanes is a huge source of delays in the ATL.

Counter-argument: The abundance of left turn lanes is a huge source of delays in ATL.

If it is a road we are talking about with the primary purpose of fast moving cars, then it should have a median restricting left turns to all but the most major of intersections. Cars making left turns are a top cause of car crashes and backups.

If it is a street serving all modes of transportation, then cars should be moving slow enough where they can safely and slowly creep around the gaps of a left turning car.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Counter-argument: The abundance of left turn lanes is a huge source of delays in ATL.

If it is a road we are talking about with the primary purpose of fast moving cars, then it should have a median restricting left turns to all but the most major of intersections. Cars making left turns are a top cause of car crashes and backups.

If it is a street serving all modes of transportation, then cars should be moving slow enough where they can safely and slowly creep around the gaps of a left turning car.

In general controlled left turn lanes at signalized intersections do add an extra phase to a traffic signal whether the signal permits passive left turns (where there is either a flash amber arrow / green ball) or controlled left turns (where there is a red arrow present) where opposing traffic must wait for traffic to turn before they can proceed.

Without the left turn signal:

-- If a left turn lane is present: Thru traffic is usually not impeded and can pass through the intersection while traffic turning left waits for a opening to turn. Thru traffic generally flows a bit better due to less signal phases and only left turn traffic incurs the delay.

-- If a left turn lane is NOT present: Traffic turning left must yield to oncoming traffic in the left most thru lane causing a temporary bottleneck in the road until the vehicle can turn. Thru traffic incurs a delay until the vehicle can safely turn left, or they can safely go around the turning car.

The only way to prevent left turn delays without a left turn lane being present is to completely forbid them altogether. That would be impossible to achieve in Midtown without creating a mess though.

IRRC some parts of Peachtree St near underground also forbid turns.

[bryantm3]

diverging diamonds and traffic circles get rid of the left turn problem, but they have their own bottlenecks too.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by jsvh

If it is a street serving all modes of transportation, then cars should be moving slow enough where they can safely and slowly creep around the gaps of a left turning car.

Well, we certainly don't want fast moving traffic inside our sites and neighborhoods.

Slow (30 mph or less) but SMOOTH traffic is the goal. That's where left turn lanes come in.

Likewise with potholes and lane-blocking activity such as construction and delivery trucks. Not at peak times on main roads, please.

And of course time the lights.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by arjay57

The lack of left turn lanes is a huge source of delays in the ATL.

Another factor is allowing road work, delivery trucks and other lane blocking behavior during peak travel hours. That is ridiculous. One delivery truck can drastically reduce traffic movement on a major road, obstructing thousands of people.

Potholes take a toll as well. People try to navigate around them or slow down to avoid blowing out their tires.

Really. And bending over for construction companies. They allowed the people building that 5+1 at Piedmont and Cheshire Bridge to block a lane to park their construction workers vehicles for about a year.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Counter-argument: The abundance of left turn lanes is a huge source of delays in ATL.

If it is a road we are talking about with the primary purpose of fast moving cars, then it should have a median restricting left turns to all but the most major of intersections. Cars making left turns are a top cause of car crashes and backups.

If it is a street serving all modes of transportation, then cars should be moving slow enough where they can safely and slowly creep around the gaps of a left turning car.

Have you ever been on a road in Atlanta?

[bu2]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

diverging diamonds and traffic circles get rid of the left turn problem, but they have their own bottlenecks too.

Both only work in very limited situations. And you aren't going to have one at every intersection. You will never have them at left turns into businesses.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by Gulch

As much as I hate the project, I don't think "blocking Red Line extension" would be grounds for a lawsuit unless it could be proven that GDOT was deliberate in doing so against MARTA's wishes, which doesn't seem to be the case here.

While MARTA may prefer a rail extension, I am sure they are not going to complain about GDOT building 90% of the transit infrastructure for them.

Originally Posted by bu2

Even so, it would still be an idiotic suit. This does not block a red line extension. It just makes it more expensive. They would have to elevate or tunnel and buy more ROW.

There is a false assumption on this board that right of way can never be bought.

Originally Posted by toll_booth

They're not. But they've made it much, much more difficult to extend the Red Line, especially through Sandy Springs where ROW is tighter.

HB 930, the one that created The ATL is what blocked the Red Line Extension.