Georgia Pedestrain Deaths Spike. Other Cities See Large Improvements. (Atlanta: sales, dangerous)

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by kombuchaluchador

I don't think it is right to criticize bikers/pedestrians when overall stats are trending less high nationally and the states that remain high are all car centric, and known for being sprawly in development.

Oddly enough, the recent spikes in auto-related fatalities have been largely attributed to pedestrians.

I think you are missing the forest through the trees.

ATLTJL's argument could be flipped back on him. Things don't need to stay the same, that is why we should focus more on human centric forms of development. We've been focused on cars for a long time despite the fact that they relatively inefficient and dangerous.

I do agree that if you are walking at night you should wear reflective clothing, though.

Apparently, that is an unreasonable request.

The article also misses the fact that while traffic fatalities are down since last year, they are still much higher than they were in 2014. https://www.ajc.com/blog/commuting/e...88rG3ZeDAzB2O/

So technically lower than LAST YEAR, but overall higher than it was awhile back.

Well, yes...2011-2014 were the lowest years for number of deaths in more than 60 years. And 2014 was the lowest rate in history. Much of this stems from the recession and many fewer people on the roads for those years, and things started to pick back up somewhat after 2013.

However, if you look back at the years before the recession, the number of total deaths in 2017 was about 4,000 fewer than in 2007, even though there were 200 billion more miles driven and 25 million more population. The rates are much lower than in 2007. In fact, the total number of deaths in 2017 was lower than any year since 1955, except for those recession years (although the rate was a fraction of 1955).

But...here's the kicker, using your 2014 as a base, vehicle occupant deaths are about 12.3% higher, while pedestrian deaths are 22.4% higher (nationally). Here in Georgia, it's 34.6% higher for vehicles and 55.2% higher for pedestrians. Since 2014, have we seen any radical shift negatively in road conditions, driving speed, or amount of driving distractions (smartphones have been around far longer than 2014). Are drivers that much worse than they were just a few years ago? Or is it possible that pedestrians are just not paying as much attention as they used to. Judging from some of the comments made here by people who are very urbanist, it's unreasonable to even expect a pedestrian to pay attention or wear visible clothing at night. So, take that for what you will.

Since 2007? Vehicle deaths are down 13.7%, while pedestrians are up 65.4%.

Originally Posted by zulu400

Pedestrians usually have a right of way in clearly marked crosswalks or otherwise explicitly mentioned.
If its in the middle of the road usually the vehicles have the right of way.

Yes the roads are public places, but there are clear rules and as much as the drivers can exercise caution, if a pedestrian walks into the middle of the road, its on them.

This seems to go against what several here believe.

Cyclists ? What can I say, they are another vehicle on the road, so we have to deal with them just like other vehicles. I am usually able to go around them safely whenever I need to, sometimes it does take a few seconds before I make my move.

I really wish there were more detailed stats on these types of fatalities. How many of them are due to just a cyclist riding in the lane and getting hit from behind, and how many are due to the cyclist entering a street when he doesn't have right of way and getting hit. Same for pedestrians. It's hard to make a true case when you don't know the circumstances.

Originally Posted by kombuchaluchador

Now come on. How many times have you heard about bikers running into each other and getting hurt much less killed? Don't play coy on this.

Yeah...I can't agree with him on that point.

Do you have any figures of people walking in the middle of the street as you describe or is that just anecdotal?

No...there are no stats, and that's the problem. I would love to see how many pedestrians have been killed simply walking down the sidewalk or crossing at a signalized intersection with right of way, vs. running across the road at will. I also would like to see the map of locations. There was one many years ago, but an updated one would be good to have.

But, I can tell you about my previous commute down Fulton Industrial. In 3/4 mile, there are six signalized intersections. Three with painted crosswalks, and three without (two of those being the interstate ramps). This is a six-lane divided state highway, which intersects with I-20 in the location I'm describing. Literally every single day, from morning till night (I could be as early as 5:30am, and as late as 4:00am making this trip), there were always multiple people just running across the road not at the signalized intersections. They might be only 100' away from the intersection, but instead of using the signals, they just run into the road. At night, many, if not most, of these were wearing dark clothing.

These people practice extremely dangerous behavior without any regard to the world around them. And that's probably a large amount of the problem.

[jsvh]

For the blame-the-pedestrians-for-getting-in-the-way-of-your-fast-moving-car folks:

Through what lens do you view the success cities like NYC have had by redesigning the streets and slowing the cars in reducing deaths to record lows?

Pedestrians are plenty safe on their own without cars around. Cars are the source of the danger. On a case by case basis we either need to design streets to slow the cars, or build facilities to separate and protect pedestrians and bikes from fast moving cars. Fast vehicles (trains or cars) and pedestrians do not mix.

Can anyone give an example of what exactly a successful blame-the-pedestrians-for-getting-in-the-way-of-your-fast-moving-car safety campaign even looks like? From what I have seen it appears to be complaining about having to drive slower on the internet as pedestrian deaths skyrocket.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by jsvh

For the blame-the-pedestrians-for-getting-in-the-way-of-your-fast-moving-car folks:

Through what lens do you view the success cities like NYC have had by redesigning the streets and slowing the cars in reducing deaths to record lows?

Pedestrians are plenty safe on their own without cars around. Cars are the source of the danger. On a case by case basis we either need to design streets to slow the cars, or build facilities to separate and protect pedestrians and bikes from fast moving cars. Fast vehicles (trains or cars) and pedestrians do not mix.

Can anyone give an example of what exactly a successful blame-the-pedestrians-for-getting-in-the-way-of-your-fast-moving-car safety campaign even looks like? From what I have seen it appears to be complaining about having to drive slower on the internet as pedestrian deaths skyrocket.

You do know that pedestrian deaths increased in NYC, right? And that in NYC pedestrian deaths accounted for more than half of all traffic fatalities there, while in Georgia, the number is around 16%?

As for a safer campaign...how did we get bike riders to put on helmets? How did we get drivers to put on seatbelts? How did we get construction workers to put on reflective vests? How did we get aerial workers to put on harnesses? Simple: you educate them and put them in charge of their own safety, not coddle them and tell them that they are always right and that the world is for them. No participation trophies here.

[jsvh]

Can you please cite your source for increased NYC pedestrian deaths? The original source I posted originally states NYC saw a 30% drop to the lowest since 1910.

Cars are the danger, so seat belts make sense. But helmets for bikers actually make you less safe and areas with less helmet wearing like the Netherlands have lower rates of bike deaths. So those are not great examples.

But maybe I am just not the one to answer "how did we get bike riders to put helmets on" since I almost never wear one. Maybe you can detail how your campaign / or laws would work. What laws are you suggesting? Things like jaywalking laws already exist many places and they are not been associated with a measurable improvement in deaths. Or if it is a law like imposing a dress code on anyone crossing the street forbidding dark clothes, can you point to anywhere that has been successful in something like that?

[SAAN]

Looking both ways before you cross the road and using common sense will prevent 90% of pedestrians getting hit. I was hit by a car as a child in NYC and lucky to be alive, but learned crosswalks and intersection dont matter when the driver isnt paying attention or has no intention of stopping.

If you see a car coming and it looks like it is not going to stop or slowing down for you, DONT CROSS THE ROAD, I cant recall how many near misses I see, in which someone starts crossing the road and a car is coming and they still continue to cross. Even if you are in a crosswalk, if the car doesn't look like its going to stop DONT CROSS THE ROAD.

The next issue are people that just cross the street wherever the hell they please and even doing it at night while wearing dark clothing, and I see alot of this on the Eastside on Redan, Hairston, Covington, and Panola.

[cqholt]

It's the law that Bicyclists are to use the far most right side of the road, or bike lane when present, unless making a left turn, and are also to abide by traffic signs and stop lights just as well as automobiles. If a cyclist is obstructing the flow of traffic by not riding on the far right side of the road -- unless a hazardous condition is present -- the cyclist IS obstructing the flow of traffic, and its no different than a automobile doing the same thing - and can be ticketed. If the road just simply put isn't large enough to safely go around a bike going 10 MPH and the bike IS on the right hand side of the road however, SHARE THE ROAD - its the law, however; THAT ALSO GOES FOR BIKES ... Just be patient and wait for an opportunity to go around him.

Key word is "Practicable" if that means taking the lane to ensure that passing cars are giving me 3' (also the law) then that is what I do. Too many times cars try and squeeze by when passing, instead of using the other lanes.

(a) Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable, except when turning left or avoiding hazards to safe cycling, when the lane is too narrow to share safely with a motor vehicle, when traveling at the same speed as traffic, or while exercising due care when passing a standing vehicle or one proceeding in the same direction; provided, however, that every person operating a bicycle away from the right side of the roadway shall exercise reasonable care and shall give due consideration to the other applicable rules of the road.

https://www.gahighwaysafety.org/camp...and-bicycling/

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by jsvh

But helmets for bikers actually make you less safe and areas with less helmet wearing like the Netherlands have lower rates of bike deaths.

How is this so? It is counterintuitive. Lordy, the number one rule with my children and bikes was to wear helmets.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

How is this so? It is counterintuitive. Lordy, the number one rule with my children and bikes was to wear helmets.

Take your pick of articles on it:

The Paradoxical Ways Bike Helmets Make Us Less Safe | Mental Floss

Wearing a bike helmet might make you more dangerous | The Guardian

Why it makes sense to bike without a helmet — Howie Chong : Howie Chong

The Bike Helmet Paradox | The Atlantic

Why the Dutch don't wear helmets | Tree Hugger

Basically cars are the source of the danger, a helmet is not going to save you from most the injuries associated with getting crushed by a car, and cars give bikers without helmets more space / drive more cautiously around them.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by SAAN

Looking both ways before you cross the road and using common sense will prevent 90% of pedestrians getting hit. I was hit by a car as a child in NYC and lucky to be alive, but learned crosswalks and intersection dont matter when the driver isnt paying attention or has no intention of stopping.

Do you have any statistics to back your claim? Because clearly places that focus on improving street design and slowing cars are having more measurable success.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Take your pick of articles on it:

The Paradoxical Ways Bike Helmets Make Us Less Safe | Mental Floss

Wearing a bike helmet might make you more dangerous | The Guardian

Why it makes sense to bike without a helmet — Howie Chong : Howie Chong

The Bike Helmet Paradox | The Atlantic

Why the Dutch don't wear helmets | Tree Hugger

Basically cars are the source of the danger, a helmet is not going to save you from most the injuries associated with getting crushed by a car, and cars give bikers without helmets more space / drive more cautiously around them.

Wow! That's all pretty interesting. Thanks for the info!