CURBED ATLANTA: I live car-free in Atlanta—and I love it (Marietta: living, cost of)

[SEAandATL]

Originally Posted by CCATL

I agree with all of this - that's kind of what I was trying to say in my post. I'm "car-light", not car-free, with my family in intown Atlanta. We use the car to get that big trunk full of groceries, though. However, it also speaks to our urban environment. I used to live in NYC, and *gasp* I had a car there too. However, I used it for other purposes, not grocery shopping. The urban environment there made it easier to stop at a small market for fruits, another one for meat, another one for cheese. I stopped everyday (or almost everyday) to get what I needed for dinner that night on my walk from the subway station to my apartment. Here, that's not possible. Our options are Kroger, Publix, or another big-box type grocery store. Yes, there specialty stores like Spotted Trotter, but they're pretty expensive - not somewhere I'm stopping for tonight's meat. Also, our built environment in general doesn't support that lifestyle - there is no *affordable* grocery store between my house and the MARTA station where I can pick up the basics. It's all fancy-pants boutique grocery type things. Sometimes I'll stop for bread, but not for every ingredient I need for the meal. We don't need that - we need more bodegas or similar.

Even in Tokyo I had a car, mainly to get to work on the base and for buying groceries or other places in the local area that were closer than the nearest train station.

[DaBurgh]

I started my goal of living car-free around two years ago. Took a year to find a job along the train line and then another year to sell my house in the burbs and find somewhere in the city.
Moved to Atlantic Station almost a month ago and have the Atlantic Station shuttle to get to the Arts Center train station to get everywhere from there.
I've put 14 miles on my car in almost a month

[brown_dog_us]

My wife and I started going car free for 1 day a year, and then it was 2 days, and then it was a week, and then it was a month. Going car free is a great way to change up your routine and get out of a rut. You'll think about your errands a lot more, you will eat what's in the house a lot more, and you will drink a lot more when you are out to dinner. Ok, that last one is probably just me.

Anyway, try it for a day or a weekend.

[waronxmas]

It continually surprises me how many people think there is some argument to be made that driving is more comfortable than commuting by transit, bike, and/walking. That's not being insightful, it's just reality. Using a car will ALWAYS be more comfortable than transit/bike/walking everywhere. You dictate the schedule, you can go as fast or slow as you like, you control the cleanliness, and you control of how hot or cold you want to be.

None of those things are the reason to use transit though. In most cases, in all cities in the world, the reason for taking transit are the following:

1. Cost to own a car. (A very serious factor in the world's most densely populated cities.)
2. Cost to park said car.
3. Congestion.
4. Traffic induced anxiety.
5. Disability.

#1 and #2 are most often overlooked as the main reason. People that live in NYC or London or wherever else would probably rather drive, but it's just so expensive to do so it doesn't make sense. Even in cities with transit coverage no where close to a NYC or London choose this option when #1 and #2 are present (like DC). Hell, we could create 25 lines of rail transit with hundreds of stops in this city and people would still prefer to drive since owning a car and parking here are so cheap.

#3 speaks for itself. It's true here for when people can take transit easily.

#4 is a real thing.

#5 is major factor that never gets much press

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by CCATL

I think everybody here knows that you prefer a car-oriented lifestyle, you've made it pretty clear in the past. I think the point of the curbed article is that it is POSSIBLE to be car-free in Atlanta if you choose to do so.

You're right...I do. More on that below. And yes...it is possible. Anything is possible if you're willing to put in the effort. I could grow my own food and compost my own excrement in my tiny house if I really wanted to, and it would be so much better for the planet and everything! But, I ain't doing either of those things until some apocalypse requires me to.

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

What I don't care for in car-free enthusiasts is the rather smug attitude most of them have, which goes kind of like, "I did it, and you can, too -- if only you wanted to!"

This is the part that gets to me, and why I end up responding in so many of these threads. The idea that car drivers are just lazy, uninformed, pedestrian-murdering simpletons in their personal steel cages, not experiencing the wonder and beauty of the city of Atlanta while traveling on free roads paid for by Atlanta residents and picking up Applebees on their way to their gated suburban enclaves. The thought that the only reason I drive a car is because I've been tricked by society into believing that I actually enjoy driving myself around and don't understand that it's cheaper to take transit or bike because I'm too dumb to do math. Smug indeed.

Originally Posted by CCATL

The urban environment there made it easier to stop at a small market for fruits, another one for meat, another one for cheese. I stopped everyday (or almost everyday) to get what I needed for dinner that night on my walk from the subway station to my apartment. Here, that's not possible.

I'd go out on a limb and say that's probably just not that desirable here, either. I cannot imagine going to 3-4 different stores to get different types of items each day. That doesn't sound remotely appealing. Nor does having to stop every day for food. I honestly think most southern types would rather make a single stop.

Originally Posted by jsvh

I live without a car. It is a lot less stressful, safer, and saves money.

If y'all prefer to sit in Atlanta traffic, more power to you.

Eh, I don't really. Atlanta traffic is bad only during peak rush hours on certain routes. Outside of that, it's totally fine.

Originally Posted by waronxmas

It continually surprises me how many people think there is some argument to be made that driving is more comfortable than commuting by transit, bike, and/walking. That's not being insightful, it's just reality. Using a car will ALWAYS be more comfortable than transit/bike/walking everywhere. You dictate the schedule, you can go as fast or slow as you like, you control the cleanliness, and you control of how hot or cold you want to be.

Bingo. I just don't understand these arguments. Taking 2-5 times as long to get places and having to put up with all the other people and general dirtiness just isn't my idea of "stress-free".

None of those things are the reason to use transit though. In most cases, in all cities in the world, the reason for taking transit are the following:

1. Cost to own a car. (A very serious factor in the world's most densely populated cities.)
2. Cost to park said car.

What? But driving is so cheap! The roads are free! The parking is free! It's all free! Why would I spend a few bucks on train tickets when I can have all this free car stuff?

[jsvh]

Direct incimental costs are low, but total costs are still high for car ownership.

Even with the massive susidies cars are still costly. The solution to that is not even more subsidies for driving and forcing people to drive even more to get more "value" out of their big expense but more directly associating costs directly with the mode. Then people can more easily use the less expensive alternatives to driving.

Once you get trapped in a car dependant life where a car is the only way around then using an alternative is expensive. But once you escape to a life of options it is more affordable and pretty darn great.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Once you get trapped in a car dependant life where a car is the only way around then using an alternative is expensive. But once you escape to a life of options it is more affordable and pretty darn great.

Glad it works for you.

[DaBurgh]

I walk and bike so that I'm not at the mercy of other vehicles and obstructions

I'm a rat running my own race

[CCATL]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

You're right...I do. More on that below. And yes...it is possible. Anything is possible if you're willing to put in the effort. I could grow my own food and compost my own excrement in my tiny house if I really wanted to, and it would be so much better for the planet and everything! But, I ain't doing either of those things until some apocalypse requires me to.

I'd go out on a limb and say that's probably just not that desirable here, either. I cannot imagine going to 3-4 different stores to get different types of items each day. That doesn't sound remotely appealing. Nor does having to stop every day for food. I honestly think most southern types would rather make a single stop.



Bingo. I just don't understand these arguments. Taking 2-5 times as long to get places and having to put up with all the other people and general dirtiness just isn't my idea of "stress-free".

I mean, your lack of experience actually living in an urban environment may be some of the reason you can't imagine why any lifestyle outside of driving/suburban living would be appealing. I've lived in very urban, very rural, and now would consider an urban/suburban hybrid (like most of intown Atlanta). I know what it's like to be forced to drive everywhere, because I've lived that life. Some people like it, some people don't - to each his own. But just like you're quick to defend driving as being so much more comfortable and better, I'll be quick to tell you that's not necessarily true (based on my own experiences). The 3-4 stores to pick up groceries are all in an area smaller than the Glenwood Kroger. It took less time to go to each store, find what I wanted, and pay, than it would to park in the massive lot, walk to the back of a massive store to get the milk, pay, and walk back to the car. So, maybe most people would want to make a single stop, but that's because they're thinking about it in terms of their suburban lifestyle - not the reality that it actually took me less time, and was WAY more convenient, since I passed right by on my walk home anyway.

In terms of your statement that it takes 2-5 times longer to use an alternative mode of transportation instead of drive - this is just untrue. Like everything else, it depends. I used to drive to work, it took me on the best days, the same amount of time as biking, and on the worst days, about 30 minutes LONGER than biking. It was also expensive - around $800/year to park (nothing compared to most cities, but expensive for Atlanta).

Listen - I'm not against people driving. But I do want people in this city to open their eyes, and see that driving is choking us, and that there are other viable ways to get around for some of us. If you want to drive - so be it. But you can't say that the other ways of doing things are not your idea of a good lifestyle if you've never lived them. The lifestyle in Alpharetta is, and should be, much different than that of intown Atlanta. We need to get to the point that not driving make sense for a larger number of people, or we're screwed in the long run.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by CCATL

IListen - I'm not against people driving. But I do want people in this city to open their eyes, and see that driving is choking us, and that there are other viable ways to get around for some of us.

Yep...some of us.

If you want to drive - so be it. But you can't say that the other ways of doing things are not your idea of a good lifestyle if you've never lived them.

Oh, but I have. I lived for around 7 years traveling the world (staying weeks in each location) and not driving.