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Old 02-01-2020, 08:21 AM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,871 posts, read 4,302,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Ask for a lot and expect a little, I guess.
Go big or go home
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Old 02-01-2020, 11:23 AM
 
5,386 posts, read 2,137,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Ask for a lot and expect a little, I guess.
The highway signs are the least of Atlanta's transportation worries... and I personally never had a issue with them.
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:00 PM
bu2
 
13,417 posts, read 7,792,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
The highway signs are the least of Atlanta's transportation worries... and I personally never had a issue with them.
Not the biggest worry.

But its one of the things that Georgia does worst. I can't think of any place in the US I have been where signage was worse.

It fits in with a lot of Georgia stuff where they go and try to re-invent the wheel instead of using something already created elsewhere. You see this in the state legislature all the time when talking about legislation. Makes you wonder if any of Georgia's leadership has ever lived as an adult outside the state.
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Old 02-01-2020, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,109 posts, read 4,399,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Not the biggest worry.

But its one of the things that Georgia does worst. I can't think of any place in the US I have been where signage was worse.

It fits in with a lot of Georgia stuff where they go and try to re-invent the wheel instead of using something already created elsewhere. You see this in the state legislature all the time when talking about legislation. Makes you wonder if any of Georgia's leadership has ever lived as an adult outside the state.
Sounds very similar to Texas. Although we don't tamper with the History books used to educate our kids, among other differences.

Last edited by JMatl; 02-01-2020 at 10:15 PM..
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Old 02-02-2020, 09:08 AM
 
5,634 posts, read 3,876,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
These lanes will not generate enough money to pay for the construction of the projects (most of the funding is coming from gas tax revenue)
How many new-built transportation or transit projects in the US, and specifically Georgia, have really generated enough revenue to truly pay for themselves? Very, very few. How many come close? Which come closest?

Quote:
Where does GDOT have a $6 billion/year budget?
They have only a little more than half of that to my knowledge.

Quote:
ALL of these projects should be canceled just on the cost/benefit alone
I'm not fully sure I agree with that. These lanes will probably benefit hundreds of thousands of people per day with a lot of extra time. When you dig into such things as transit projects, their costs are largely not paid by users and benefit many fewer people, and often not with any time savings. That doesn't make them worthless by any means, but you could argue cost/benefit there.

Quote:
Don't you live very, very ITP anyway?
I'm curious how that's relevant...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
I just cant help but ask but are you seriously expecting GDOT to replace every single sign in the state to meet NC standards?
Have you not read many of his posts? Yes. Yes, he is. He's not entirely wrong on some of it, but it's pretty over the top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Not the biggest worry.

But its one of the things that Georgia does worst. I can't think of any place in the US I have been where signage was worse.

It fits in with a lot of Georgia stuff where they go and try to re-invent the wheel instead of using something already created elsewhere. You see this in the state legislature all the time when talking about legislation. Makes you wonder if any of Georgia's leadership has ever lived as an adult outside the state.
This is true. Some signage is particularly awful. Many places where the arrows showing which lanes split which way aren't lined up. Places where the distance to an exit is off. But, there's one that is my favorite. I thought I was crazy the first time I noticed it, so I had to go back and look...

This is all on I-20 Westbound on the east side of the city
Sign saying "2 miles to 285 Bypass", which is 2.2 miles to the first exit.
Another sign saying "2 miles to 285 Bypass", which is 1.1 miles to the first exit
I have reported that one as best I could figure out how.

Then there's this perennial forum favorite on 75N. Sign says 1.75 miles to the exit when the solid line dividing the exit lane starts at one mile from the sign. I believe that architect77 has reported this one before, and GDOT maintained that the sign was correct, even though 1.75 miles is 1/4 mile past where the exit splits off completely (as in grass).
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Old 02-02-2020, 09:50 AM
 
5,386 posts, read 2,137,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
How many new-built transportation or transit projects in the US, and specifically Georgia, have really generated enough revenue to truly pay for themselves? Very, very few. How many come close? Which come closest?



They have only a little more than half of that to my knowledge.



I'm not fully sure I agree with that. These lanes will probably benefit hundreds of thousands of people per day with a lot of extra time. When you dig into such things as transit projects, their costs are largely not paid by users and benefit many fewer people, and often not with any time savings. That doesn't make them worthless by any means, but you could argue cost/benefit there.



I'm curious how that's relevant...



Have you not read many of his posts? Yes. Yes, he is. He's not entirely wrong on some of it, but it's pretty over the top.



This is true. Some signage is particularly awful. Many places where the arrows showing which lanes split which way aren't lined up. Places where the distance to an exit is off. But, there's one that is my favorite. I thought I was crazy the first time I noticed it, so I had to go back and look...

This is all on I-20 Westbound on the east side of the city
Sign saying "2 miles to 285 Bypass", which is 2.2 miles to the first exit.
Another sign saying "2 miles to 285 Bypass", which is 1.1 miles to the first exit
I have reported that one as best I could figure out how.

Then there's this perennial forum favorite on 75N. Sign says 1.75 miles to the exit when the solid line dividing the exit lane starts at one mile from the sign. I believe that architect77 has reported this one before, and GDOT maintained that the sign was correct, even though 1.75 miles is 1/4 mile past where the exit splits off completely (as in grass).
Well admittedly, the sign on I-75N to I-675N is also incorrect. It states that the exit is 1 3/4 miles but in reality it is closer to 1 1/4 miles as I've confirmed both by Google maps and also by my odometer. Because of that, people will think you have more time to get over than you really do. The one on I-285N to I-85N for awhile also had two right lanes with arrows which indicated you could continue straight or exit to the right when this was only possible in one lane. I was just never really bothered by the highway signs. Infact I kind of liked the gantries they use.

My thing however about these lanes is that yeah many will benefit from them but elevated skyways over I-285 while tearing down all the forestry on each side of the highway?... Yuck. I was actually on Peachtree Dunwoody Rd (accident on GA-400 NB just before Abernathy Rd closed the highway and forced us to get off) and as I was approaching the I-285 interchange, all the trees on the other side of the hospital that hid 285 were cut down for the GA-400 interchange, it made the area look entirely different.

Then the other thing is, I dont really see them as a way of future proofing the transportation future of Atlanta in the sense that mass-transit could (if ridership and potentials were met capacity, the system were timely, and most importantly it took commuters where they needed to go with as few transfers as possible). I just see this as a way of enabling more single occupancy commuters (and more importantly, catering to a population base that has a history of blocking off transit extension attempts). I'm not against driving so dont mistake me and I do believe additional highways are needed as the current system isnt really enough for a city of 6 million people, but at the same time there is only so much you can build before the inefficiency of cars (primarily in urban areas) shows when it comes to commuting. I love driving and it is definitely convenient and flexible, however; the average commuter is a single occupancy. As Atlanta metro continues to grow (especially if it trajects toward 8 Million People) it will NEED transit diversity, no amount of road planning will compensate for that because cars just by nature are limited in what they can supply in terms of commuter capacity. What you trade off by driving is capacity for flexibility. The toll lanes will provide reliable commutes for those who can afford them. Those who cant will sit in the GP lanes. Some mention that they may move closer to their job but I dont understand how that is feasible to live in an expensive area when they cant even afford the tolls. I just feel that the suburbs especially really need to come out of the anti-transit mindset especially if they intend on handling the growth they are incurring.

So I guess my issue with this isnt that it only serves cars, but basically that car infrastructure is the only thing they are catering to where transit diversity is needed and that it comes with a HEAVY price tag (I'm not saying transit wouldnt come without a heavy price tag) that could be used to increase the effectiveness of rail giving a way to completely bypass traffic altogether. I personally could accept most of Atlanta's road structure if I had a way of bypassing traffic (rail) where as the toll lanes, while they wont induce demand or even become filled to quickly, will eventually be reserved for a specific commuter base as the metro continues to grow. They just seem like a desperate move IMO, especially with how neglectful to aesthetics they will be in that area.
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Old 02-06-2020, 04:21 PM
 
5,634 posts, read 3,876,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
This is all on I-20 Westbound on the east side of the city
Sign saying "2 miles to 285 Bypass", which is 2.2 miles to the first exit.
Another sign saying "2 miles to 285 Bypass", which is 1.1 miles to the first exit
I have reported that one as best I could figure out how.
Got a response back from GDOT about this one. They basically said “it’s not out of order, so we are going to leave it. We’ll add it the the list for the next sign replacement project. “
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Old 02-06-2020, 05:41 PM
 
5,386 posts, read 2,137,070 times
Reputation: 4153
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Got a response back from GDOT about this one. They basically said “it’s not out of order, so we are going to leave it. We’ll add it the the list for the next sign replacement project. “
If Im not mistaken they can actually lose federal funding over that section of I-20 over something like that if it were to come in the light of the Federal Highway Administration. It would be reduced to a state highway due to non-compliance of the Interstate Highway Act
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Old 02-06-2020, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,109 posts, read 4,399,004 times
Reputation: 6237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
If Im not mistaken they can actually lose federal funding over that section of I-20 over something like that if it were to come in the light of the Federal Highway Administration. It would be reduced to a state highway due to non-compliance of the Interstate Highway Act

Maybe someone needs to drop a dime on them....
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Old 02-06-2020, 07:09 PM
 
5,386 posts, read 2,137,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
Maybe someone needs to drop a dime on them....
Our feds are probably more ballooned in that circus they created in DC and federal infrastructure is probably the last thing on their mind at this point

The future of maintaining and even governing (non tolled) infrastructure is actually going to be pretty scary going forward.
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