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Old 02-08-2020, 08:40 PM
 
5,386 posts, read 2,137,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
I mentioned that in the second post.

This plan for Spaghetti Junction is problematic, to say the least. Already that interchange feels dated, especially the 285E-to-85N ramp, which is jammed every afternoon because of the volume of traffic that is funneled onto I-85 and that sinewy ramp. These new flyovers are going to make future reconstruction that much more difficult.

There is some good coming out of this project however. Check out the PIB/285 interchange, which is getting some improvements on the northeast side.
TBH I dont think future reconstruction is a plan at all. Or atleast not in the form of improvements for non-tolled lanes. I think toll lanes ARE the future of ANY highway improvement. Thats happening everywhere...But unfortunately this looks absolutely terrible... They literally built two of the same interchange in one space.

It's like a cancer, throw up more lanes to suit more drivers and when they run out they throw even more up, no strategy to distribute traffic more thoroughly to other parts of the metro or better yet ...rail... which would keep everything looking much cleaner.

The only way this could ever look clean is if it were submerged and given that is impractical the real solution here was to be different than other metros, install other means of moving people than just driving, trains and BRT at the least.

To me at this point for Atlanta, the best solution is to make it possible to skip traffic by mass-transit. The solution would remain practical and remain sustainable for much much longer than more drivers filling up the same arteries and continuously improving, decking and double decking highways. The best thing to do is to skip traffic altogether. We as people really need to be more practical minded about commuting.

Last edited by Need4Camaro; 02-08-2020 at 08:50 PM..
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Old 02-08-2020, 08:49 PM
 
6,695 posts, read 6,308,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
I hope this continues to snowball for everyone that owns property along these corridors, and that they get mad. It should be made clear that these business owners and homeowners lives and livelihoods are being disrupted so that some yokel can save 5 minutes on their 30-mile commute.
Yeah, I also feel deeply uncomfortable with so many existing properties and structures being disrupted in an area of such heavy existing development.

GDOT reportedly has reduced the number of properties (which originally numbered about 300) proposed to be disrupted by the construction of future toll lanes by almost half.

But 155 properties still sounds like a very large amount of people and property to disrupt in an area of such heavy development and high population.

It is also understandable why the governments of the local jurisdictions that lie along the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter (the municipal governments of Doraville, Chamblee, Dunwoody and Sandy Springs, and the governments of DeKalb, Fulton and Cobb counties) may be lukewarm (at best) to support a toll lane construction plan that appears to remove so many revenue-producing properties from their tax digests.

Quote:
Approximately 155 properties in Brookhaven, Dunwoody and Sandy Springs could be affected or demolished by Georgia Department of Transportation right of way acquisition for the I-285 top-end toll lanes project, according to new maps unveiled during a Jan. 21 open house.

The draft plans show the project razing several residential and commercial structures, including some or all the Chateau Club Townhomes and possibly the swimming pool of the Georgetown Recreation Center, both in Dunwoody. Also marked for displacement are three to four buildings in the Dunwoody Village apartment complex, and two buildings in the Sierra Place apartments in Sandy Springs. Part of the backyards of numerous homeowners living along I-285 could be eaten up for the toll lanes.
New GDOT maps show properties that could be impacted or demolished by I-285 top-end toll lanes project (Reporter Newspapers, 21 Jan 2020)
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Old 02-08-2020, 09:43 PM
 
5,386 posts, read 2,137,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
Yeah, I also feel deeply uncomfortable with so many existing properties and structures being disrupted in an area of such heavy existing development.

GDOT reportedly has reduced the number of properties (which originally numbered about 300) proposed to be disrupted by the construction of future toll lanes by almost half.

But 155 properties still sounds like a very large amount of people and property to disrupt in an area of such heavy development and high population.

It is also understandable why the governments of the local jurisdictions that lie along the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter (the municipal governments of Doraville, Chamblee, Dunwoody and Sandy Springs, and the governments of DeKalb, Fulton and Cobb counties) may be lukewarm (at best) to support a toll lane construction plan that appears to remove so many revenue-producing properties from their tax digests.



New GDOT maps show properties that could be impacted or demolished by I-285 top-end toll lanes project (Reporter Newspapers, 21 Jan 2020)
Fully supporting it would be political suicide for them.
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Old 02-09-2020, 07:49 AM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,871 posts, read 4,302,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
Yeah, I also feel deeply uncomfortable with so many existing properties and structures being disrupted in an area of such heavy existing development.

GDOT reportedly has reduced the number of properties (which originally numbered about 300) proposed to be disrupted by the construction of future toll lanes by almost half.

But 155 properties still sounds like a very large amount of people and property to disrupt in an area of such heavy development and high population.

It is also understandable why the governments of the local jurisdictions that lie along the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter (the municipal governments of Doraville, Chamblee, Dunwoody and Sandy Springs, and the governments of DeKalb, Fulton and Cobb counties) may be lukewarm (at best) to support a toll lane construction plan that appears to remove so many revenue-producing properties from their tax digests.



New GDOT maps show properties that could be impacted or demolished by I-285 top-end toll lanes project (Reporter Newspapers, 21 Jan 2020)
I’d be livid if I were those city governments as well.
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Old 02-09-2020, 01:59 PM
bu2
 
13,418 posts, read 7,792,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
Yeah, I also feel deeply uncomfortable with so many existing properties and structures being disrupted in an area of such heavy existing development.

GDOT reportedly has reduced the number of properties (which originally numbered about 300) proposed to be disrupted by the construction of future toll lanes by almost half.

But 155 properties still sounds like a very large amount of people and property to disrupt in an area of such heavy development and high population.

It is also understandable why the governments of the local jurisdictions that lie along the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter (the municipal governments of Doraville, Chamblee, Dunwoody and Sandy Springs, and the governments of DeKalb, Fulton and Cobb counties) may be lukewarm (at best) to support a toll lane construction plan that appears to remove so many revenue-producing properties from their tax digests.



New GDOT maps show properties that could be impacted or demolished by I-285 top-end toll lanes project (Reporter Newspapers, 21 Jan 2020)
155 properties sounds like a typical MARTA project. Nobody on here complains about that.

If you are going to improve things, there have to be changes. There doesn't seem to be a lot of retail along 285. If its not retail being impacted, its not as big a deal to move.
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Old 02-09-2020, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,109 posts, read 4,399,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
155 properties sounds like a typical MARTA project. Nobody on here complains about that.

If you are going to improve things, there have to be changes. There doesn't seem to be a lot of retail along 285. If its not retail being impacted, its not as big a deal to move.
Please name the recent MARTA project that impacted 155 properties. You're parroting your usual Wendel Cox rail bad, roads good talking points.

This thing has become nothing less than an abomination. I agree with the redesign of the 400/285 interchange, and the accompanying collector-distributor lanes. That's a legitimate need that will greatly improve safety and flow. These express lanes as proposed however are too destructive. They either need to start over, or for once get serious and expand rail across the top end and out into the suburbs. The groundswell of opposition to this plan is only going to massively grow once more people realize what this has morphed into.
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Old 02-09-2020, 05:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
155 properties sounds like a typical MARTA project. Nobody on here complains about that.
You probably don't hear many complaints about MARTA projects nowadays because MARTA has not expanded its rail service in at least 2 decades.

The last MARTA station opened in 2000 at North Springs on a Red Line expansion of the MARTA system that was largely located within the median of the right-of-way of the Georgia 400 expansion through Buckhead and the ITP portion of Sandy Springs... Which was a project (the GA-400 ITP expansion) that was highly controversial at the time that it was proposed in the late 1980's and when it was constructed in the early 1990's.

The inclusion of the MARTA rail line within the median of the GA-400 expansion project seemed to squelch much of the opposition to the project from many Intown Atlanta activists who can be notably averse to urban highway construction.

But affluent North metro Atlanta residents (including many affluent Buckhead and ITP Sandy Springs residents whose upscale residential properties and neighborhoods were directly affected by the GA-400 expansion project) remained unhappy about the GA-400 expansion project to the point that their negative public sentiment about the project helped lead to the defeat of the proposed Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc years later.

Otherwise, outside of the right-of-way of the ITP GA-400 expansion, many (if not most) other portions of the MARTA heavy rail system are located close to, along, directly adjacent to and/or directly within the right-of-way of existing freight rail beds (and many other portions of the MARTA HRT system are tunneled underground) where the disruption of existing structures and properties (while not non-existent) was able to be relatively minimized.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
If you are going to improve things, there have to be changes. There doesn't seem to be a lot of retail along 285. If its not retail being impacted, its not as big a deal to move.
That is a good point that there have to be changes if things are going to be improved. That is also a good observation that there does not appear to be much retail located immediately adjacent to the I-285 right-of-way where these toll lanes are being proposed to be built.

But retail properties are not the only properties that generate meaningful amounts of revenue for a community's tax base.

There are many other types of commercial properties (including office space, light industrial, light manufacturing and warehouse properties) and multi-family properties in the path of the proposed toll lanes that generate much tax revenue for their respective local governments.

There are also concerns (and even outright objections) from residents of affluent neighborhoods located directly along the route (including in parts of Doraville, Chamblee, Dunwoody and, especially, in Sandy Springs west of Roswell Road) about the removal of the popular tree buffers that seem to effectively serve as a meaningful physical and emotional buffer between the I-285 roadway and those upscale residential areas.
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Old 02-09-2020, 05:20 PM
 
Location: North Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
If its not retail being impacted, its not as big a deal to move.

Ask my eight neighbors who are about to get their homes taken by GDOT for the GA 400 express lanes, as well as the rest of us that have to deal with a 30+ foot high viaduct towering over our houses.

I guess "it's not a big deal."
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Old 02-09-2020, 07:17 PM
 
5,386 posts, read 2,137,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
Please name the recent MARTA project that impacted 155 properties. You're parroting your usual Wendel Cox rail bad, roads good talking points.

This thing has become nothing less than an abomination. I agree with the redesign of the 400/285 interchange, and the accompanying collector-distributor lanes. That's a legitimate need that will greatly improve safety and flow. These express lanes as proposed however are too destructive. They either need to start over, or for once get serious and expand rail across the top end and out into the suburbs. The groundswell of opposition to this plan is only going to massively grow once more people realize what this has morphed into.
Rail is the answer. Redesigning those lanes in a sense that will take as few properties as possible while leaving them it aesthetically pleasing in a sense of not looking like elevated skyroads abruptly annihilating the forestry there would require digging, very very very expensive and the overall added capacity (and even regional connectivity) would not be worth it. An effective rail system with suburban BRT / ART with signalized priority connectivity between stations, residences, businesses and job hubs would give commuters the ability to completely bypass traffic and areas around stations would even be able to co-exist without a need for a vehicle to begin with making living near job hubs more feasible. These lanes are going to make developments they serve as well as future developments more car dependent in a region that is already limited to how much road space can be allocated for that node of transportation while also making the region planners more aggressive to construct highways as a solution in areas where density and transit coordination is needed while as the metro continues to grow while mass-transit is overlooked, the need for more automobile infrastructure will also increase where in an urban area, especially Atlanta...balance is needed.

Roads and highways are okay but when it becomes the ONLY thing the city focuses on expanding it becomes very problematic.

Rail isnt innocent in the aspect of receiving opposition, both politically in proposing and then route planning, but its effects would be much more effective. Getting rid of traffic, you're not going to do regardless how many lanes or roads... the answer is to be able to bypass it which rail will do while allowing reliable commutes

Tearing down the trees and building these Express lanes literally tears away at the identity of Atlanta.

TBH despite Atlanta's traffic issues, the more I see this project, the more I hope it really doesnt come to pass and somehow they get on board with MARTA or atleast Commuter Rail

Last edited by Need4Camaro; 02-09-2020 at 07:39 PM..
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Old 02-09-2020, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,109 posts, read 4,399,004 times
Reputation: 6237
^Your best post ever, in my opinion.

Thank you!
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