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Old 02-10-2020, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,109 posts, read 4,399,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKCorey View Post
Pretty sure, the CD lanes will go all the way to Peachtree Dunwoody. I thought, they began at Roswell and continue over to Peachtree Dunwoody but I could be wrong.

I think the C-D lanes extend just to the east of Ashford Dunwoody.
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Old 02-10-2020, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Georgia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKCorey View Post
Pretty sure, the CD lanes will go all the way to Peachtree Dunwoody. I thought, they began at Roswell and continue over to Peachtree Dunwoody but I could be wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
I think the C-D lanes extend just to the east of Ashford Dunwoody.
They reach past Ashford-Dunwoody, nearly to Chamblee-Dunwoody. See the plans for the top-end lanes in the second post. They include where the CD lanes will be.
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Old 02-10-2020, 06:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
They reach past Ashford-Dunwoody, nearly to Chamblee-Dunwoody. See the plans for the top-end lanes in the second post. They include where the CD lanes will be.
Do you think they should convert the Chamblee Dunwoody lanes (Savor & Cotillion Dr) to oneways with U turns at the overpasses?
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Old 02-10-2020, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Georgia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
Do you think they should convert the Chamblee Dunwoody lanes (Savor & Cotillion Dr) to oneways with U turns at the overpasses?
Like they're doing with the proposal? Yes. Savoy and Cotillion have long needed to become one-way streets. So confusing to have urban access roads be two-way.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Here is the public comment form for anyone who hasn't responded yet.
Shared my opinion.
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Old 02-11-2020, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,923 posts, read 2,672,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
I visited Atlanta not long ago and noticed all the trees on Peachtree Dunwoody Rd between the Hospital and the I-285 overpass completely eradicated for the GA400 interchange reconstruction. I couldn't believe how different the area looked as in...night and day... Now the 400 / 285 interchange I can understand for safety purposes as the left lane merges are an issue but eradicating all the trees on topend I-285 for these elevated skyways that are going to cost $5 billion and still have a limited impact on regional mobility as a whole is not something I could vouch for. I get Atlanta needs more highways but it still needs to be done in a stategic sense and not just throwing up pavement everywhere they can.

I don't really see Atlanta (or mainly especially Northern Atlanta which borders some heavily sensitive natural features) as a traditional metro that can get away easily with building a road network like seen in DFW and Houston. Atlanta would be rightfully innovative by designing reliable transit means... I love driving but i do recognize cars have limitations in terms of commuting. You trade capacity for flexibility when driving. Now i'm not saying that cars should be eliminated and everyone should be tolled but that concentrating only on road infrastructure especially when there is present many commuters who want and would benefit from transit would be cancerous, it would be a desire that could never truly be satisfied.
I agree that it's too late to build an efficient web of roads, but this awful monstrosity is the result of their trying to stay in the existing right of way, the limited amount that was designated in the 1960s when the feds paid for 3 interstates and a loop to rendezvous at Atlanta, which probably had a population of 1 million people if that.

And all of my comments about overhead signage is mainly a plea for them to execute with higher standards from now on.

I hate than none of the gantries are visually level, and that group of signs at I-75/I-285 is too difficult to interpret in the window of 10 seconds or so that people have to adjust their lane position.

I think that instance is worthy of replacement from a safety and clarity standpoint.

It irks me to no end how GDOT tries to do everything it's own way and doesn't realize all of the pride citizens of other states get from their more civilized-looking highways.

Georgia won't rise to look like a top-tier state in my 30-40 years left of my lifetime.
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Old 02-11-2020, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
In ways I agree but in others I disagree. The problem with this project is... after all the razings are done - its still going to have a negligible overall affect in comparison to the growth the region is incurring over the next 10 years so everyone who was booted lost their property for the weakest method of impact. There are more effective means of handling commuters but sadly politicians tremble at the idea of sharing transit lines with the rest of the metro. I-285 is already HUGE. You've been to NC more than enough times I'm sure. Name one Interstate in NC as wide as top-end I-285... and you can see, it isn't enough... the problem isn't so much that I want to see road infrastructure neglected but more so that I would much rather see smart future planning of which has the capacity to handle more people over a much longer duration of time than 2 extra tolled lanes price gouged only to allow those with the money to pay for them to use them, and make a note that even they will still have no alternative means of commuting. That is the problem... there are no ALTERNATIVES and that is seriously needed in Atlanta.
I-285 is the only East/West road without a million stoplights in all of North Georgia. 3 million Northern metro residents who probably go back and forth to Gwinnett in Cobb more than anyone realizes are limited to this one interstate that must be shared without out of staters and freight moving through. It's underserving them exponentially. Even if it was 15 lanes each way it's not a substitute for 2 or 3 smaller East-West thoroughfares which is why DFW is so much better. Loops bigger than I-285 aren't as usable when the diameter start to become much, much too big. An outer loop for Atlanta would probably be 80-100 miles across and 200 miles all the way around.

I would have to assess the amount of roads in other states up the Appalachian trail before I'd buy the environmental sensitivity argument down here at the base of the mountain range. That may be the truth, but the Northern Arc revolt was during a different time with a different level of distrust of govt. here in Georgia (not that's it better now, just different).

But what's happened is that the 2 lane East-West highway that passes Big Canoe resort has become a deathly white-nuckle experience as 18 wheelers and massive amounts of big truck traffic are rounding those mountain curves as fast as possible. It is succumbing to all that East-West traffic that has only I-285 which is 20 miles South and out of the way.

I said 20 years ago that Atlanta had doomed itself by not adding to the most basic freeway layout, and uglifying another main freeway will reduce the area's beauty and appeal to a severe degree.

America in the 21st century will not hold on to the top spot. We're already down to 17th in quality of life compared to the rest of the world.
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Old 02-11-2020, 07:33 PM
 
Location: North Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
Now i'm not saying that cars should be eliminated and everyone should be tolled but that concentrating only on road infrastructure especially when there is present many commuters who want and would benefit from transit would be cancerous, it would be a desire that could never truly be satisfied.

Too bad the geniuses in charge under the Gold Dome and at One Georgia Center don't get it.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:29 PM
 
5,386 posts, read 2,137,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77 View Post
I-285 is the only East/West road without a million stoplights in all of North Georgia. 3 million Northern metro residents who probably go back and forth to Gwinnett in Cobb more than anyone realizes are limited to this one interstate that must be shared without out of staters and freight moving through. It's underserving them exponentially. Even if it was 15 lanes each way it's not a substitute for 2 or 3 smaller East-West thoroughfares which is why DFW is so much better. Loops bigger than I-285 aren't as usable when the diameter start to become much, much too big. An outer loop for Atlanta would probably be 80-100 miles across and 200 miles all the way around.
And the bolded furthers my point that these lanes are not the answer. These lanes are a last ditch effort or essentially an act of desperation, not an act of effective transportation coordination. Because the real road product that would effectively remove vehicles from the overburdened I-285 (thoroughfares between I-75 and I-85) would be politically and physically impractical. The real answer today is thinking outside the box in terms of transportation innovation and focus on moving more masses of people upon arteries that are very limited in the amount of upgrades they can recieve. Having denser (affordable) nodes closer to job hubs, transit with the ability to completely skip traffic, and the ability to make the most of the road system N.ATL incurs. Right now you're frustrated because you've seen and lived through a system of neglectful transportation improvements thus anything that comes up and looks like it will move traffic better = auto push without considering the real effectiveness comparing the costs vs the overall effectiveness of the product in the grand scheme of the metro. If these lanes are built, they wont induce demand but they also wont make the metro any less dependent on infrastructure that can only be limited in supply in the region in N.ATL. DFW can get away with building the roads seen there because there is nothing close to what is seen near the foothills of the Blueridge standing in it's way...the have practically an endless canvas of developable land without much environmental backlash (outside of Coyotes and Cougars) and their plan is to span all the way to Oklahoma's state line...

As far as building an outer bypass around the entire metro, note Houston's TX99 is intended to be about 200 miles long and I've personally used it to bypass Houston during rush hour so it's not terrible (compared to sitting in Houston traffic) in that regard but in either case expanding capacity on overburdened routes which are overburdened due to lack of ALTERNATIVES (rather than CAPACITY) will only go so far. The Express lanes will remain free flowing but they will likely also be capless in tolls while the general purpose lanes will still continue to suffer and density nodes around job hubs will still be limited due to lack of transit connectivity making it difficult and expensive to live near them or commute to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77 View Post
I would have to assess the amount of roads in other states up the Appalachian trail before I'd buy the environmental sensitivity argument down here at the base of the mountain range. That may be the truth, but the Northern Arc revolt was during a different time with a different level of distrust of govt. here in Georgia (not that's it better now, just different).

But what's happened is that the 2 lane East-West highway that passes Big Canoe resort has become a deathly white-nuckle experience as 18 wheelers and massive amounts of big truck traffic are rounding those mountain curves as fast as possible. It is succumbing to all that East-West traffic that has only I-285 which is 20 miles South and out of the way.

I said 20 years ago that Atlanta had doomed itself by not adding to the most basic freeway layout, and uglifying another main freeway will reduce the area's beauty and appeal to a severe degree.

America in the 21st century will not hold on to the top spot. We're already down to 17th in quality of life compared to the rest of the world.
Either way an outer perimeter is very unlikely and that is what I am trying it get you to realize. If you are not going to get that then you will need to think out the box in terms of transportation. We can complain and gripe about it but it will likely change zilch... This is why I'm saying that Atlanta's solution will be different than DFW's, NC's ect. It will have to be more innovative, and more importantly, on the same page. Also for what it's worth I cant think of any major cities the size of Atlanta that are significantly close to the Appalachians at any point of its trail.

What I am trying to get you guys to get is something rather than nothing, and something effective enough to offset the congestion on the roads and remain from now and WELL into the future as something reliable and effective enough to bypass traffic... you're not going to solve it with those toll lanes, especially with 8 million projected people. After you exit the toll lanes you will return to congestested arteries which still are largely disconnected (no grid) and limited to how much they can be widened (property rights)... You're concentrating only on the highways but the problem is much bigger than that and overall is already impractical to resolve because it is nested in the very roots of the growth. The best thing is to give alternatives and focus on a multi model transit network.


I have a choice between $200 per month in tolls for a 15 mile highway drive in Austin TX + $100 additional in gas. Those aren't even toll lanes but a $5 one way tollroad trip. That's $300 a month in tolls and fuel just to drive. That's just vehicle operation expenses not including car payments and insurance.
Or
$100 monthly rail pass as one of the few and fortunate that lives and works near a rail station in Austin

Guess which one I opt for....

Road and Cars are great but they are by no means the ultimate end all be all, we also have to adjust ourselves and our expectations when it comes to commuting as we are extensively inresourceful when it comes to it. Now I dont hold that expectation to everyone and I understand flexibility from cars is needed but there are points where I am ready to give up driving to be more efficient in commuting.

I made a post about the American Dream and how transit was annihilated from it earlier to highlight that this commuting dream is really just that. Its extremely resource costing, money hungering and even tiring and as it continues we can never supply enough infrastructure to fully fuel it. We need to become more efficient in commuting (en-masse) and living closer to work nodes.

Last edited by Need4Camaro; 02-11-2020 at 08:39 PM..
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Old 02-12-2020, 05:25 AM
 
6,695 posts, read 6,308,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77 View Post
I would have to assess the amount of roads in other states up the Appalachian trail before I'd buy the environmental sensitivity argument down here at the base of the mountain range. That may be the truth, but the Northern Arc revolt was during a different time with a different level of distrust of govt. here in Georgia (not that's it better now, just different).
That is a good point that the public's revolt against the Northern Arc (and Outer Perimeter) was during a different time with a different level of distrust of Georgia state government.

But one of the (multiple) factors that seemed to make the public's revolt against the Northern Arc so intense and robust was the fact that the area that the Northern Arc was proposed to run through north of Atlanta (including in Forsyth and Cherokee counties) had a very fast-growing population at the time... A fast-growing population (with a growing amount of people and development) that only helped to strengthen the opposition to the road as time went by because of increasing amount of people that were joining the opposition.

Fast forward about 18 years after the then soon-to-be-outgoing Barnes gubernatorial administration backed away from the Northern Arc due to rising public opposition (and about 17 years after the incoming Perdue gubernatorial administration officially cancelled the road) and the area where the Northern Arc portion of the Outer Perimeter was proposed to be built now has even more people and development than it did nearly 2 decades before.

(… The population of Forsyth County increased from 98,407 in 2000 to 236,612 in 2018, for an increase of more 140% between 2000-2018... While the population of Cherokee County increased from 141,903 in 2000 to 254,149 in 2018, for an increase of more than 79% between 2000-2018.)

(… Forsyth County is where county government officials were intentionally permitting new residential development directly in the path of the road so as to make it even more difficult for the road to be built... While, with a county motto of "Where the metro meets the mountains," Cherokee County is a North metro Atlanta outer-suburban/exurban community where many residents consider their county to be part of the greater Blue Ridge Mountains region.)

Given that the combined population in Forsyth and Cherokee counties has more than doubled in the nearly 2 decades since the road was being pushed by Georgia state government, opposition to the Northern Arc concept (particularly if a new version road was to be proposed to be built along the same route as the original Northern Arc/Outer Perimeter proposal 2 decades ago) would be likely to be greater than it was the first time.

More people and development in the corridor would most likely mean even more opposition to a resurrected Northern Arc/Outer Perimeter and/or anything that even remotely resembles it... Which is one of the main reasons why GDOT has encountered such opposition to its plans to widen GA-20 between Cumming and Canton... Because of fears and paranoia by local residents in Forsyth and Cherokee that the project is really a back-door way to build part of the Northern Arc or some kind of version of the Northern Arc.
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