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Old 02-16-2020, 03:41 PM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,871 posts, read 4,302,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
What does this even mean? Is this some sort of anti-Democratic Texan code-speak? You are aware that Jimmy Carter is responsible for the massive Freeing the Feeways project in the 80's? You can thank him for rebuilding 75, 85 the Connector and 20 on the Eastside ITP.

That was more Busbee/Harris than Carter, but a lot of the PE/design started under Carter's GDOT.

Most of the ire in this thread is wishing GDOT would pull a Robert Moses on Metro Atlanta's cities/counties and ram more roads through.
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Old 02-16-2020, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,109 posts, read 4,399,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
That was more Busbee/Harris than Carter, but a lot of the PE/design started under Carter's GDOT.
I believe Jimmy helped steer Federal money into the pipeline for the project while he was in the White House.

Quote:
Most of the ire in this thread is wishing GDOT would pull a Robert Moses on Metro Atlanta's cities/counties and ram more roads through.
Exactly! If people want to live in a sea of concrete with multiple highways providing easy access to all corners of the Metro, then Atlanta clearly isn't the place for them.
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Old 02-17-2020, 06:01 AM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,871 posts, read 4,302,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
I believe Jimmy helped steer Federal money into the pipeline for the project while he was in the White House.
Correct, and much of that was the 90% federal Interstate funding for redoing segments of I-75 and I-85 that existed pre-1956.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,923 posts, read 2,672,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
That was more Busbee/Harris than Carter, but a lot of the PE/design started under Carter's GDOT.

Most of the ire in this thread is wishing GDOT would pull a Robert Moses on Metro Atlanta's cities/counties and ram more roads through.
Nice, albeit lazy, try.

No one wants new roads plowing through existing neighborhoods. And even if they did the circumstances in walkable NYC don't apply here except for at a few concentrated spots.

The bottom line is you can't keep begging companies, jobs, and people to relocated to metro Atlanta unless you're willing to increase the capacity of the transportation new both with mass transit and highway capacity for all those groceries, building materials and Amazon deliveries that sustain our consumerist American economy.

The 2 hours per day that Atlantans endure to get around the metro is the lovechild of inaction 25 years ago.

And yet people are still against every expansion, rail or roads, that is proposed.

So the attitudes like this are much to blame for the situation today. Mea culpa is in order.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
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Georgia didn't even have a DOT until the 1970's.

By that time most states had 50 years of planning and road building experience under their belts.

Our basic freeway layout hasn't changed since the 1960s.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,923 posts, read 2,672,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
Well, the large majority of people in the Metro area do care though. Destroying the foothills with sprawl is simply a no go, so the State needs to figure out alternatives. If that means spending Billions on rail, so be it.



Because most of these other states aren't dealing with anything remotely similar to the land we have to our north. This areas beauty is treasured, and people are not willing to sacrifice it to almost guaranteed sprawl - increased mobility or not.


That interchange is ridiculous, and takes up an excessive amount of land. A stack would have been much better. I wonder how many people were displaced for this.

If this is an example of the much touted 'progressiveness' of NCDOT, no thanks.
That turbine interchange costs exponentially less than what would be another spaghetti junction, and NCDOT should be commended for trying to allocated limited resources across a state with quite a dispersed population.

it's tough to try to be fair to all 100 counties, but the gas prices are the same or less as in Georgia, and somehow after maintaining the nation's 2nd largest system of over 80,000 miles of roads, they are able to allocate $3 billion per year towards new construction and improvements.

GDOT brags about adding one lane to I-85 not even reaching Commerce, and since the 1990s NCDOT has made I-85 8 lanes virtually through the entire state (220+ miles).

And being from scenic NC, you're wasting your breath trying to convince me that Georgia's foothills or mountains are anything of note.

A northern arc in the original proposed location is already built out with affordable suburbs that won't age well anyway.

Any location further out would be too far out to be efficient for metro residents.

Like I say, stop waving in newcomers if you aren't going to increase freight, truck, raw material, & food road capacity.
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,109 posts, read 4,399,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77 View Post
That turbine interchange costs exponentially less than what would be another spaghetti junction, and NCDOT should be commended for trying to allocated limited resources across a state with quite a dispersed population.

it's tough to try to be fair to all 100 counties, but the gas prices are the same or less as in Georgia, and somehow after maintaining the nation's 2nd largest system of over 80,000 miles of roads, they are able to allocate $3 billion per year towards new construction and improvements.

GDOT brags about adding one lane to I-85 not even reaching Commerce, and since the 1990s NCDOT has made I-85 8 lanes virtually through the entire state (220+ miles).

And being from scenic NC, you're wasting your breath trying to convince me that Georgia's foothills or mountains are anything of note.

A northern arc in the original proposed location is already built out with affordable suburbs that won't age well anyway.

Any location further out would be too far out to be efficient for metro residents.

Like I say, stop waving in newcomers if you aren't going to increase freight, truck, raw material, & food road capacity.
This constant bashing of the situation here vs NC has become ridiculous. It wasn't that long ago that GDOT was a different animal under another Party, and Georgia was rated as having some of the Nation's best highways. This is about the same period as when I-85 through Charlotte was a 6 lane relic from the 60's. Things change, sometimes unfortunately. NC hasn't fared too well either under this new regime, witness the takeover of Buncombe County & Asheville's Water Department as well as the Bathroom Bill.

You keep advocating for highway expansions here that are absolutely not palatable to the Region, period. I don't care how much more beautiful you consider NC to be while accommodating unbridled highway expansion, that simply won't fly here. And I'm sorry, but that Interchange in Raleigh is obnoxious in the amount of land it occupies.

As far as 'stop waving in newcomers' goes, just shut down the Universities - Georgia Tech in particular. That's what's driving this surge in growth, not the incentives for the largest relocations. Nobody is holding a gun to the head of the companies flocking to Atlanta and expanding here, they're coming by choice.
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:00 AM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,871 posts, read 4,302,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77 View Post
Nice, albeit lazy, try.

No one wants new roads plowing through existing neighborhoods.
Except you were championing that in this very thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77 View Post
Yes, we live in a knee-jerk reaction society today where people choose a side with a talking point and never stop to actually process what is being proposed. The media's attempt to sensationalize every story for click revenue is responsible. The local news here never tries to explain beyond the headline practically.

So when GDOT announced plans 2 years ago to widen Ga-20 which is the most viable location for what the Northern Arc would have provided, people living near the thoroughfare were immediately opposed to any changes that would increase through-put. They cannot sacrifice any disturbance to their homes despite choosing to live in a major city. Doing what's best for the entire region's mobility never enters their thinking much less is considered a duty. (North Carolina's residents are always aware of and willing to fulfill this duty. Almost every one of the dozens and dozens of interstates always being built require dozens if not hundreds of homes to be moved or razed).

Distrust from decades so, so much corruption in state/city government was, to me, the biggest challenge to the Northern Arc.

And you can't just surprise the public one day with plans of a new big highway. It should have been mapped out 20 years prior with a corridor warning that a future highway could result in eminent domain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77 View Post
It is incredibly selfish to buy property in a major city right beside its main loop/bypass,whose growth has raised the value of all of your assets....

And think that your single rights on your little piece of property trump doing what's for the greater goods of the community.

Every other state razes thousands of properties paying fair or above value prices to land/home owners to build infrastructure that benefits everyone.

Raleigh's outer loop is beginning the next to last section (to complete the loop) and after years of studying about 10 different routes, will necessitate the demolition of hundreds of homes.

It's understood there that the greater good comes before your individual attachment to a property.

Georgians want to benefit and feed off Atlanta and not contribute anything in return.

That attitude is at the heart of so many of this state's shortcomings.

The opposite of unity.....fracturing into more and more new towns that duplicate services, less efficiency as a result.
Not only that, you had the audacity to minimize the concerns of people getting evicted from their homes, calling it their duty to roll over for the state DOT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77 View Post
Georgia didn't even have a DOT until the 1970's.

By that time most states had 50 years of planning and road building experience under their belts.

Our basic freeway layout hasn't changed since the 1960s.
GDOT is the successor agency to the State Highway Department (which was created in 1916).
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Old 02-20-2020, 09:43 AM
 
5,634 posts, read 3,876,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
Well, the large majority of people in the Metro area do care though. Destroying the foothills with sprawl is simply a no go, so the State needs to figure out alternatives. If that means spending Billions on rail, so be it.
Rail in rural areas 60 miles outside of town is not going to be a solution to anything, unless it's a commuter rail line into the city helping some rush-hour traffic. It's not going to solve rural area to rural area commuting. The coverage needed is too vast for rail to make a dent in that.
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:35 AM
 
5,386 posts, read 2,137,070 times
Reputation: 4153
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Rail in rural areas 60 miles outside of town is not going to be a solution to anything, unless it's a commuter rail line into the city helping some rush-hour traffic. It's not going to solve rural area to rural area commuting. The coverage needed is too vast for rail to make a dent in that.
I think what he is more so meaning is a hub and spoke rail network from the core to outlier suburbs which I personally also advocate for as it would assist in giving commuters other options than driving and would also give suburban nodes the ability to become denser and walkable while also promoting employment growth near transit... I agree that not everything can be solved by rail but I think the problem that many of us are having with this is they are trying to solve 'everything' by road while transit is still limited to I-285 and I particularly don't think thats going to lead to a bright future. While I get that the metro hasnt seen much in the way of transportation increases within quite some time - you have to look at the fact that nearly all the approved projects to heavily developed suburban areas and their job amenities have completely annihilated anything functional in terms of transit and mainly approved only HOT lanes. I think transit diversity is going to be very necessary as the region continues to grow especially as the metro runs out of room for road placement and improvements. Note that room does not necessarily entail 'open land' but available land without causing environmental impacts, disturbing excessive forestry, or plainly ripping up established neighborhoods.

Another thing worth noting is Atlanta's road layout on the surface roads is just not conducive to be feasible for carrying mass commuters by road, there are too many disconnected streets in the suburbs, too many suburban areas that cannot widen roads and then too many roads that have too many intersections to close together. I.E. the lack of a grid. You may build the highway successfully but as soon as you get off of it you'll still have to deal with all of that and that would be impractical to correct at this point. At this point like I've stated in other posts Atlanta would be much wiser to devise ways to completely bypass driving. If the region does indeed hit 8 million people it would become impractical to design a road system that could appease the masses.

I may just be getting older but if I had the option to commute by rail and skip all of I-85 or GA-400 traffic I would definitely say yes to it.

The outer-perimeter is a different animal as most of us do not hope to envision it as a commuter road (meaning the true concept of the outer-perimeter was not necessarily designed to help commuters in the 60+ mile region in Atlanta's outer suburbs), By our means it was intended as a true bypass and a way to move freight away from the city that wasn't destined for the city, that is needed without any question; however, investors and politicians practically bought up land on the first announcement of the road. By their means it was never intended to be a bypass but rather another inter-commercial & development spur much like I-985, I-575 and GA-400.

Last edited by Need4Camaro; 02-20-2020 at 11:46 AM..
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