I went to GDOT's Open House for I-285 Express Lanes (Atlanta: transfer, roofing)

[bu2]

Originally Posted by architect77

Yes, we live in a knee-jerk reaction society today where people choose a side with a talking point and never stop to actually process what is being proposed. The media's attempt to sensationalize every story for click revenue is responsible. The local news here never tries to explain beyond the headline practically.

So when GDOT announced plans 2 years ago to widen Ga-20 which is the most viable location for what the Northern Arc would have provided, people living near the thoroughfare were immediately opposed to any changes that would increase through-put. They cannot sacrifice any disturbance to their homes despite choosing to live in a major city. Doing what's best for the entire region's mobility never enters their thinking much less is considered a duty. (North Carolina's residents are always aware of and willing to fulfill this duty. Almost every one of the dozens and dozens of interstates always being built require dozens if not hundreds of homes to be moved or razed).

Distrust from decades so, so much corruption in state/city government was, to me, the biggest challenge to the Northern Arc.

And you can't just surprise the public one day with plans of a new big highway. It should have been mapped out 20 years prior with a corridor warning that a future highway could result in eminent domain.

People would have a long time to plan accordingly.

But that lack of future planning for the next 30 years, on paper, with civil engineering already done for a shelf with shovel-ready projects waiting for funding...

is the underlying inadequacy that's at the root of almost all of our mobility problems. That mindset still hasn't been adopted by the state's leaders even today.

That is the huge chasm between Georgia and the other top-tier states.

I don't believe that GDOT employees even keep up with what other states are doing for inspiration or to evolve. It's like, "let's put our own spin on how roads should be planned and built," and of course the result is embarrassingly ugly with low standards in the quality of its installation.

That's why I will be at an open house this week with handouts urging them to learn from other states and prioritize aesthetics.

Because they are really uglifying what millions of people are forced to look at for hours a day, and it's a huge component of the Atlanta experience.

I predict that without trees along the freeways readily visible, the interest and love for Atlanta as the green big, major American city, will subside and perhaps accelerate its downfall one day.

But GDOT never increased its right of way footprint in the past and probably thinks they can't afford to build beyond the existing corridors.

Georgia license plates aren't commonly seen in nearby states to the degree that other states' plates are, which means we fly everywhere and never get to see the broad picture of how other state's build highways versus Georgia.

Otherwise the standards would be higher here.

Strongly agree with you on the inadequacy of GDOT's efforts. As much as it pains me as a Texas Longhorn, Georgia could use a bunch of Aggie transportation engineers.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

GDOT had recently proposed to expand the GA-20 roadway between Cumming and Canton (which is mostly 2-3 lanes) to a divided 6-lane roadway.

Many (if not most) local residents seemed to be strongly opposed to almost any type of widening of the GA-20 roadway (except for maybe the addition of some extra right and left turn lanes where most needed, and/or maybe a center-turn lane) out of an intense fear that adding travel lanes to GA-20 will attract the type of heavy development that has been built in and helped to almost completely urbanize once seemingly far-flung closer-in metro Atlanta suburban areas like North Fulton, Gwinnett, Cobb, DeKalb and Clayton.

… This in an area (in Forsyth and Cherokee counties) where many residents seriously continue to think of themselves as living in the Appalachian/Blue Ridge foothills region of North Georgia.

The many residents who are loudly opposed to any type of significant expansion of the GA-20 roadway between Cumming and Canton intensely fear that adding more travel lanes to GA-20 will bring about the destruction of the exurban/rural Appalachian/Blue Ridge foothills character and lifestyle that they so enjoy about living in the area and that they seem to be willing to fight fiercely to protect.

In that context, almost any type of expansion of GA-20 is likely to be rejected by the residents of Forsyth and Cherokee counties who remain strongly opposed to expanding the GA-20 roadway between Cumming and Canton.

Here are a couple of links from a previous discussion here on the Atlanta Forum in early 2017, after GDOT had proposed to expand GA-20 into a 6-lane divided surface highway, that might provide some more background on that issue...

Residents push back against widening of Hwy 20 to six lanes in Cherokee and Forsyth counties (City-Data Atlanta Forum, 2/28/17)

Residents push back against six lanes on Highway 20...
Concerned residents in Cherokee County are pushing back against a plan to widen Highway 20 from two lanes to six lanes. GDOT officials say the project will relieve congestion and improve safety. (WXIA-TV/11Alive Atlanta, 2/27/17)

Its hard to tell whether that is the vocal minority or a true majority. Fact is that people who show up at hearings are those who feel the strongest and are not necessarily representative of the community.

[bu2]

@architect77

Ran into one of your sign examples today. Normally don't take I-20 to get into downtown, but I was today. Was trying to get off at Windsor. Saw a sign that said 1/2 mile. Got to the right and all of the sudden I was heading to the Connector with no connection to Windsor before I could see a tiny sign at the far left saying Windsor was another 1/4 mile. So my effort to avoid having to drive across downtown through all the lights was defeated.

Signage in Atlanta seems to be designed as a slight reminder for people who already drive that way regularly. What's even worse is the random appearance and disappearance of lanes with little or no warning like on Piedmont in the Lindberg area.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by bu2

Its hard to tell whether that is the vocal minority or a true majority. Fact is that people who show up at hearings are those who feel the strongest and are not necessarily representative of the community.

The people who show up at hearings appear to be but only a small sample of the people that express opposition to road projects that are reminiscent of the deeply unpopular erstwhile Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc.

And its not just at public hearings where the opposition to Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc-style road expansion projects manifests itself.

The people up that way almost always express their opposition in numerous angry phone calls, emails, letters and social media posts to GDOT and local, state and federal government officials; calls to and interviews with traditional media outlets (newspapers, television, radio), etc.

And the people who oppose these types of road expansion projects that are reminiscent of the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc are emboldened because they know that they have been successful in defeating these projects before and know that they are likely to be successful in defeating these types of road projects again.

Residents of outer-suburban/exurban counties like Forsyth and Cherokee know that Georgia politicians are extremely hesitant (if not just outright afraid) to tussle with them over controversial projects like these because they know that almost any road construction proposal in the Atlanta suburbs and exurbs that reminds the public of the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc is considered by many to be an attack on the way of life of most (if not all) metro Atlantans and North Georgians, both OTP and ITP.

[Born 2 Roll]

The State of Georgia’s latest plans for elevated toll lanes along the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter would affect fewer properties than originally envisioned, but area residents worry the project will still adversely affect their neighborhoods.

Plans unveiled last year would have required the Georgia Department of Transportation to acquire or obtain easements for more than 300 parcels along the 22-mile route. The latest plans unveiled at recent public meetings would affect about 265.

State officials say the changes are evidence they’re listening to residents’ concerns as they prepare for the $5 billion expansion of I-285 roughly between I-75 and I-85 north of Atlanta.

Georgia DOT rolls out latest plans for I-285 toll lanes (Atlanta Journal-Constitution)

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by architect77

3 by Stephen Edwards, on Flickr

2 by Stephen Edwards, on Flickr

1 by Stephen Edwards, on Flickr

7 by Stephen Edwards, on Flickr

I just cant help but ask but are you seriously expecting GDOT to replace every single sign in the state to meet NC standards?

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

The State of Georgia’s latest plans for elevated toll lanes along the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter would affect fewer properties than originally envisioned, but area residents worry the project will still adversely affect their neighborhoods.



Georgia DOT rolls out latest plans for I-285 toll lanes (Atlanta Journal-Constitution)

New toll lanes GDOT's latest effort to ease traffic (CBS 46 Atlanta)

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I just cant help but ask but are you seriously expecting GDOT to replace every single sign in the state to meet NC standards?

I think he is.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by architect77

An entire system built out and charging $17-18 per trip during rush hours like I-85 does now will be a lot of money coming in.

I just repeated their claims, no one thinks what they're saying is absolute and that the toll revenue will actually be all they have to spend.

As someone who spends a lot of time working with GDOT staff, even they'll tell you don't take their numbers at face value with regards to the express lanes.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I just cant help but ask but are you seriously expecting GDOT to replace every single sign in the state to meet NC standards?

Originally Posted by Gulch

I think he is.

Ask for a lot and expect a little, I guess.