Your opinion on the future of infill housing within the Perimeter... (Sandy Springs: fit in, lease)

[spacelord75]

Originally Posted by Noc

Who is anyone on here to say how much space someone needs? The is a broad assertion to make. The statement should be how much space someone can afford. There are plenty of people who are early 30 with one child and have LARGE homes that can afford them. Hell there are people who are early 30's no children that live in an 800 sqft box called a condo/apartment that have monthly payments that rival these 4000+ sqft homes with option ,ARM's etc... Space isn't the issue in this day and age people are going after what they can't afford 4000sqft or 800 sqft.

Since the opening post related to McMansions, I decided to discuss that phenomenon more so than the verifiably insane "luxury" condo/townhome market. Obviously your statement is true - one should live within their means, regardless of size of house...I was merely adapting my statement to the thread.

The scary/enraging thing about the housing boom and resulting bust, is how deeply it will impact those of us who are living within our means. I fear this downturn will have a long/deep impact on us all. The entire economy for the last 7 years has been fueled by non-existent money and we will now all have to pay for this in some form or fashion.

[Noc]

Originally Posted by spacelord75

Since the opening post related to McMansions, I decided to discuss that phenomenon more so than the verifiably insane "luxury" condo/townhome market. Obviously your statement is true - one should live within their means, regardless of size of house...I was merely adapting my statement to the thread.

The scary/enraging thing about the housing boom and resulting bust, is how deeply it will impact those of us who are living within our means. I fear this downturn will have a long/deep impact on us all. The entire economy for the last 7 years has been fueled by non-existent money and we will now all have to pay for this in some form or fashion.

I know what you mean. I am somewhat feeling the pinch b/c I want to sell in NY and move to Atlanta but the glut of homes and falling prices is forcing me to rethink.

[Buckhead_Broker]

Originally Posted by gt6974a

I just don't see it, unless it's large developers stepping in. Land cost too much.

This makes no sense whatsoever. Large developers do not build in-fill. There is not the opportunity for large (100+ units) projects to make the effort pay off. Infill will always be dominated by small volume builders.

[Buckhead_Broker]

Talk about wanting your cake and wanting to eat it too!

OK, before y'all get your knickers in a snit, think about something. The size of houses is not dictated by the builders. It is largely dictated by the lenders and yes, you the public! Why, you ask? Well, I'm glad you asked that. The lot cost of an infill house generally makes up 1/4 to 1/3 of the value of the finished house, so, if you have a $500,000 lot, the finished house price should be in the neighborhood of $1.5 million. Now, the lender wants to make sure that you, the buyer, gets adequate value in the house, not just in the land. If houses are selling for about $300 per square foot, then a $1.5 million house would need to be roughly 5,000 square feet to meet the lenders guidelines. The only way to get them smaller is to guess what? I'm glad you asked that as well! Allow the lots to be smaller! (ergo, less expensive). But y'all don't want that because that results in greater density. You don't like what you call McMansions but you don't like density either! Well, as I said, you want your cake and want to eat it too!

[RainyRainyDay]

Originally Posted by Buckhead_Broker

You don't like what you call McMansions but you don't like density either! Well, as I said, you want your cake and want to eat it too!

Who's the "you" here who objects to density? I haven't noticed any posts like that on this thread?

[JPD]

Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay

Who's the "you" here who objects to density? I haven't noticed any posts like that on this thread?

That's exactly what I was going to say.

[scgraham]

With the rise in gas prices, it made me ponder the housing needs for people in Atlanta. Will the high cost of gas force more people to move intown ? While traffic alone is enough to make some buyers who work downtown to consider intown Atlanta living, I ultimately think gas prices will really push more people to abandon the suburbs. It is simply a matter of being practical.

[lolamom]

You know, generally speaking, I try and stay away from "you oughts" when it comes to market conditions. Why? Well, last I heard we live in a market economy--than while regulated--is predicated by supply and demand. When it comes to consumerism, none of us "need" much of anything; but rather we want it. I don't need but one or two outfits, but I have a whole closetful and I assume you all do too, right? My point is that you can't start getting into a X doesn't need Y unless you are willing to turn the lense back on yourself. Do you NEED a computer? Do any of us NEED anything other than a bridge for shelter and some food and water? Make sense....?

Anyway, I agree in principle it's usually best to stay within one's means but I object to the generalization that people living in-town in McMansions are living outside of theirs. I know we are not....

Having said all that, let me say this too. I get why McMansions inspire such hatred. I do. I will give you an example that has happened THREE times on my street since we moved here in 04. By way of background, ten years ago, 90% of inhabitants on this block had been here since the 50s/60s/70s. One of the neighbors told me that from 1984-2000, no one new had moved in.... It was a close knit community with people who had raised their families together and had seen their children off to families off their own. Within the four years I have been here, I have seen three of those residents die... leaving their estates for sale. First came everyone to pick through their belongings, then came the wrecking crew to tear down their homes. The whole time this has been happening, I can only imagine the remaining citizens looking at this....and it breaks my heart. Bad enough we all have to grow old and die; worst still to have to do shortly after seeing your lifelong neighbor's home LITERALLY paved over while they are still fresh in the grave.

So yes, life goes on, and it's something we all know, but it must be wrenching to see it in such stark terms.

The other thing I can't help but note is that the majority of these folks were working class and of course, we the invaders, are buying multi-million dollar homes. So that's got to be hard to see. (I grew up working class and I can really relate to this...)

I am troubled by the lack of affordable homes just as I am troubled with the direction the economy is taking. My DH has done well enough (and we've moved and sold enough times) that we are on the positive side of the divide, but most of my loved ones are not and it scares me. While I may not agree with the person who said that X should afford Y, I do agree and understand with his sense of frustration that the American dream continues to get so out of reach for most people....

.......and oh yeah, if y'all think it's bad in Atlanta.......

I have just spent the last 6 months evaluating three different areas for possible moves and I found Atlanta to be the most affordable with the most positive quality of life.

Lola

[lolamom]

Originally Posted by scgraham

With the rise in gas prices, it made me ponder the housing needs for people in Atlanta. Will the high cost of gas force more people to move intown ? While traffic alone is enough to make some buyers who work downtown to consider intown Atlanta living, I ultimately think gas prices will really push more people to abandon the suburbs. It is simply a matter of being practical.

By the way, this was the sort of analysis I was looking to spur with my OP....

[IntownHomes247]

Originally Posted by lolamom

Just wondering if we expect the infill housing (ie teardowns) to continue at the same pace given the economy.....or what the outlook is for real estate within Atlanta ie the perimeter. I ask because my street is made up of half McMansions, half older ranches and I am wondering what to expect going forward..... The growth and rise in prices seems inevitable to me given the location but gosh, at some point, it has to stop, right?

So, put on your magic eight ball and give me your best guesses: What is your prediction of the impact of the economy on the local real estate market in places like Buckhead, Sandy Springs, etc...

It really doesn't have to stop. We're not growing any more land inside the perimeter (or outside it for that matter, but there's still plenty available out there ) and as long as people want to live inside the perimeter they're going to need homes and many of those people are going to want a new home but in an established neighborhood. The only option in that case is either to find a previously undeveloped lot (which is extremely rare) or to buy an existing home and tear it down. In addition to infill, there are also plenty of "gut and redo's" and I expect those to continue along with expanding existing homes with new additions, and less dramatic renovations of existing homes. There will also be the continued densification of housing on every available piece of land that can be developed. I consider the intown Atlanta housing market very positive for the long term. We're just going through a slump right now.