Gwinnett approves ‘transformative’ research development project

[LynnHarris1]

Gwinnett project Rowen approved without public comment

https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-new...H2IZEQXC3VZXQ/

SOURCE: AJC

[Need4Camaro]

Just hypothetically thinking of what-if situations.. ..such as tearing down GPM, Fry's Electronics, and possibly adjacent shopping centers and car dealerships and replacing it with this research center and renaming Pleasant Hill Rd to Gwinnett Research Pkwy or something to restore vitality in that area... ...then bringing MARTA rail up to that area and plopping down a stop as well as finishing off the remaining strip malls with mixed use developments and parks.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Just hypothetically thinking of what-if situations.. ..such as tearing down GPM, Fry's Electronics, and possibly adjacent shopping centers and car dealerships and replacing it with this research center and renaming Pleasant Hill Rd to Gwinnett Research Pkwy or something to restore vitality in that area... ...then bringing MARTA rail up to that area and plopping down a stop as well as finishing off the remaining strip malls with mixed use developments and parks.

YES! What a visionary idea.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by JMatl

YES! What a visionary idea.

Yeah, are their plans and site locations set in stone? would be nice to see GPM area get some TLC.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Yeah, are their plans and site locations set in stone? would be nice to see GPM area get some TLC.

I really don't know, this thread is the first I heard about it.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Just hypothetically thinking of what-if situations.. ..such as tearing down GPM, Fry's Electronics, and possibly adjacent shopping centers and car dealerships and replacing it with this research center and renaming Pleasant Hill Rd to Gwinnett Research Pkwy or something to restore vitality in that area... ...then bringing MARTA rail up to that area and plopping down a stop as well as finishing off the remaining strip malls with mixed use developments and parks.

The problem is there is no magic wand. Those aren't the things that will change the demand for the area. It isn't about the name of a road. The county has wanted more growth to redevelop the area for awhile and they've created opportunity zones, CIDs, and created zoning that allows for higher impact buildings in that area. They'd love that to happen.

Already any company can purchase any of those properties and rebuild in those areas as-is. If the county gov't decided to buy out those lands to the tune of hundreds of acres, much less 1000+, the costs would be far, far greater and likely come with more risks to the county.

You might not like car dealerships, but they are successful functioning businesses. Those properties are built on and maintain real value and to buyout those businesses from their property and redevelop will be costly and riskier if the county does it. They also already generate property tax revenue. Just one single of the dealerships appraises for $14m and each dealership seems to appraise between $6m and $14m. Even the Gwinnett Place Mall inside the ring still maintains an appraisal of $30m, even though 7/8 of the property is underutilized. That doesn't reflect the out-parcel lots and many of those are actually utilized properties. Even the newly vacant Fry's property is a $12m piece of real estate. While Fry's shut down, the real estate investment company holding the property is still going to hold onto the land until the right chance to get their full value out of it.

The benefits of of the greenfield site will make use of momentum from new infrastructure that is coming to the area, with or without the development. It will give companies the ability to create build to suite sites, which are more demanding for larger research based campuses. This would allow for properties like the Cisco campus near GA316 and Sugarloaf (at the Western intersection).

When built out, it could be successful... but.... it will be limited to companies seeking an advantage to balancing their connections towards UGA and/or Upstate S. Carolina and the rest of the Atlanta area w/o building far inside the metro area where metro traffic can be a hindrance for those outside the Atlanta region.

In terms of cost/risk to the county, it is both cheaper and less risky. The property is cheap and can more easily increase in value with an additional sewer main and local road development. In terms of risk, even if all the business growth doesn't come, the land is still likely to increase in value and would likely attract a combination of new housing developments and industrial campuses that are common in the area. Those developments would pay for that land, as well as increase the property tax digest for the county.

The old Scientific Atlanta / Cisco campus is a good model for what they are trying to attract. It is $100m property on over 200 acres the owner can build to suit over time as needs change. It is a unique build to suit building on their own campus and they have room to expand or let subcontractors build on-site with fewer shifts in scientific development that could increase or decrease the needs of their complex.

If this can attract just 1 or 2 of those to anchor this site or 3-4 at half that size, it will be successful.

[Need4Camaro]

Dont you feel it would be fairly difficult, if not impossible to get the appraisal value of Frys and GPM given the amount of retail competition along the I-85 corridor between Gwinnett Village and Mall of GA?

As far as the infrastructure goes I'm sure there will be improvements where they are settling but being literally at the center of Gwinnett Village with MARTA rail access (if it were envisioned) would make it very accessible as well. As for demand - I guess I get that, still I'd have a hard time believing that a research campus wouldn't increase desirability and especially demand for workers to live as close to it as possible.. and I get the idea of satelite campuses such as seen at the Cisco / Scientific Atlanta campus off Sugarloaf Pkwy (I used to work there) but in this instance those nodes could still exist, but would be replaced with higher density more clustered research parks / office towers ... its a pipe dream I know but if it were visualized I feel it would really stand out and be pretty functional on a transit level as well...assuming that the MARTA rail connection was made atleast.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Dont you feel it would be fairly difficult, if not impossible to get the appraisal value of Frys and GPM given the amount of retail competition along the I-85 corridor between Gwinnett Village and Mall of GA?

not necessarily.... but these properties are unique, don't change hands overnight, and companies choose to sit on them in hopes of long-term gambles.

I think the appraised value is more or less close to the actual market value, but it has been falling for awhile and the appraisals reflect that.

I think in the case of GPM, which is actually 6 different parcels with different owners.

The central mall parcel is essentially owned by a holding company with no plans. It is only appraised for $6.5m. They bought it for $13.5m in 2013. They are merely going to sit on it, until the area is ripe for a rebound and make a buck selling it to someone else. They are hoping the county or outside investors will rejuvenate the area for them and the county is hoping whoever owns the property will invest into it. I don't think the issue here is the appraisal. I hope they lose money on it, eventually.... They're worthless speculators.

The old Sears is appraised for $4.8m, but it was purchased by an active apartment developer for $11m in 2018 that are interested in redeveloping that lot. They're wanting to redevelop with the other parcels and waiting to see what happens on neighboring parcels. That parcel is 15 acres.

Megamart is appraised at $8.9m. They paid $9m in 2013, improved the property for their business and it is still open.

Macy's is still open. They got a favorable appealed appraisal of $3.6m a few years ago. I'm willing to bet they could sell it for more, especially is a group of companies like the company that bought Sears would work together.

Now Keep in mind the context of the valuations. The center of Gwinnett Place mall was sold for $65m in 2007, so when it appraises for $6.5m and is owned by a real estate holding company, that appraised price is extremely depressed from a building that size in a central location. This property is only 32 acres too. For Further context the center of Mall of Georgia appraises at $290m and Sugarloaf Mills for $80m.


So the county wants that area to rebound. They are invested into it and it impacts their tax digest. The problem they face is how much their options costs (to them the gov't), what the risks are, and what their return is.


The Dacula Greenfield land deal is $72m in initial loans for investment over 2,000 acres. The actual building cost would be handle by private developers that buy acreage in the development. The land is likely to recapture it's value or grow in value, even if their vision fails, and they will likely get a property tax digest increase.


The issue with GPM, is we are dealing with land that is more expensive to own, the costs of improvements to bring interest back into the mall could be considerable, the risks are likely high, and they could expand the property tax digest.

At these depressed values any owner is going to choose from the cost of demo and rebuild something with a less intense use vs. hold onto the property and hope for market rebound or hope from investment into the area on neighboring parcels of the county to prop the values up, in turn they will likely sell it to a real developer for a profit.


In terms of GPM, if we can get a single company to build a sizable office location there, I'm all for it. The apartment developer on the Sears lot will be happy. We will readjust our overbuilt retail square footage by changing the land-use. I just don't think the county can realistically buy it to make that happen and if they buy the property they'll take substantial risk of a loss in the short-run and there is a good change Moon Beam won't sell for a price as low as that appraised valuation that would be a large loss for them. That has to be a choice of a company to want to do that.