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Old 09-26-2020, 12:30 AM
 
11,671 posts, read 7,819,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverOne View Post
We spend so much time on these boards talking about STEM type jobs. Every place cant be Alpharetta ,Sandy Springs or Johns Creek.
Many who live in those areas barely have saving because the cost of living is so high.Its affordable there are is a considerable amount of good paying blue collar jobs as well other jobs
I agree, although I will interject to say that the CoL is generally relative, very high salaries are obtainable in those areas with the proper credentials and experience. When reaching that point even those areas can be had at pretty much a bargain comparable to other metros in the Pacific and Northeast with similar jobs.
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Old 09-26-2020, 06:29 AM
 
8,302 posts, read 5,624,693 times
Reputation: 7531
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverOne View Post
Well in addition to a 5 star hotel.There are other companies like Delta and Chick Fil A with headquarters on the SOuthside as well
I'm referring to HQs that are new to the Southside.

While they're great stewards to have, Chick-Fil-A and Delta have already long been established.

Quote:
...Its affordable there are is a considerable amount of good paying blue collar jobs...
There was actually an article about exactly this a couple years ago in the AJC.

The so-called blue collar jobs that the Southside seems to attract (Warehouses / Distribution Centers) are actually *NOT* good paying.

South metro Atlanta working to rise from economic development shadows


"...What they lack, however, is a diversity of pay. Almost all of the jobs in the communities — save for those at Pinewood — have lower wages, somewhere around $12 to $15 range, not exactly the incomes that would attract Whole Foods or the Ritz-Carlton, the retail experts said. And some fear that south metro’s success in attracting distribution centers could pigeonhole the area, making it tougher to convince higher-end businesses that there are incomes in the communities that can afford their product.

"At this point it seems like we are becoming like logistics on steroids and it is spiraling out of control," Henry Commissioner Bruce Holmes said at a recent commission meeting
..."

While it's true there are blue collar jobs that pay well, the Southside has failed to attract them. The State of GA doesn't seem interested in competing for the massive assembly plants (Automotive, Aviation, etc.) that continue to be built in AL / SC / TN, and the smaller advanced manufacturing facilities seem to also be going to the northern exurbs (I.E. Fox Factory in Gainesville and SK Battery in Jackson County).

Now, The 1.5 million sq. ft. Data Center complex that reported to be built in Fayette County is definitely something I would consider a great win for the reasons I stated in that thread. It would just be nice if the Southside could see more of this type of investment.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/atla...ned-122-a.html
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Old 09-26-2020, 09:14 AM
 
2,096 posts, read 1,007,693 times
Reputation: 1054
Quote:
Originally Posted by citidata18 View Post
I'm referring to HQs that are new to the Southside.

While they're great stewards to have, Chick-Fil-A and Delta have already long been established.



There was actually an article about exactly this a couple years ago in the AJC.

The so-called blue collar jobs that the Southside seems to attract (Warehouses / Distribution Centers) are actually *NOT* good paying.

South metro Atlanta working to rise from economic development shadows


"...What they lack, however, is a diversity of pay. Almost all of the jobs in the communities — save for those at Pinewood — have lower wages, somewhere around $12 to $15 range, not exactly the incomes that would attract Whole Foods or the Ritz-Carlton, the retail experts said. And some fear that south metro’s success in attracting distribution centers could pigeonhole the area, making it tougher to convince higher-end businesses that there are incomes in the communities that can afford their product.

"At this point it seems like we are becoming like logistics on steroids and it is spiraling out of control," Henry Commissioner Bruce Holmes said at a recent commission meeting
..."

While it's true there are blue collar jobs that pay well, the Southside has failed to attract them. The State of GA doesn't seem interested in competing for the massive assembly plants (Automotive, Aviation, etc.) that continue to be built in AL / SC / TN, and the smaller advanced manufacturing facilities seem to also be going to the northern exurbs (I.E. Fox Factory in Gainesville and SK Battery in Jackson County).

Now, The 1.5 million sq. ft. Data Center complex that reported to be built in Fayette County is definitely something I would consider a great win for the reasons I stated in that thread. It would just be nice if the Southside could see more of this type of investment.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/atla...ned-122-a.html
Of course the Southside lags. I dont think anyone thinks it doesnt but its not JUST blue collar jobs.
The average house in my neighborhood whole not comparable in price to the Northside is around $200,000-$350,000. Thats not a lot but the house average about 2500-3500 in size and by anyone standard if you saw the neighborhood would conciser it upper middle class.

In any case these are not people working blue Collar jobs.Henry COunty has Eagles Landing among other upper middle class to wealthy areas. Clayton has Lake Spivey and Jodeco and again ,other areas. People living here arent working blue collar jobs. Yes I know many who travel to the city but I dont see how thats so unusual seeing how you have counties like Rockdale,Douglas, and others.
I mean in the South there is Fayette ,one of the wealthiest counties in Georgia. Pinewood pales in comparison to the Airport which is in Clayton Count,and I gues like the airport , there is also Clayton State University where I think people take it for granted.
The Georgia State and US South-Eastern District Archives are both headquartered near the university also.

y.Many of the highest paid airline employees live in Fayette . Especially the pilots and Air traffic controllers.
I dont think there are enough high paying jobs to go around. I honestly think we are moving to a place where more of these blue collar jobs will be the norm. Middle class continues to shrink. We are becoming a country of the have and and have nots.
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Old 09-26-2020, 09:32 AM
 
8,302 posts, read 5,624,693 times
Reputation: 7531
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverOne View Post
Of course the Southside lags. I dont think anyone thinks it doesnt but its not JUST blue collar jobs.
The average house in my neighborhood whole not comparable in price to the Northside is around $200,000-$350,000. Thats not a lot but the house average about 2500-3500 in size and by anyone standard if you saw the neighborhood would conciser it upper middle class.

In any case these are not people working blue Collar jobs.Henry COunty has Eagles Landing among other upper middle class to wealthy areas. Clayton has Lake Spivey and Jodeco and again ,other areas. People living here arent working blue collar jobs. Yes I know many who travel to the city but I dont see how thats so unusual seeing how you have counties like Rockdale,Douglas, and others.
I mean in the South there is Fayette ,one of the wealthiest counties in Georgia. Pinewood pales in comparison to the Airport which is in Clayton Count,and I gues like the airport , there is also Clayton State University where I think people take it for granted.
The Georgia State and US South-Eastern District Archives are both headquartered near the university also.

y.Many of the highest paid airline employees live in Fayette . Especially the pilots and Air traffic controllers.
I dont think there are enough high paying jobs to go around. I honestly think we are moving to a place where more of these blue collar jobs will be the norm. Middle class continues to shrink. We are becoming a country of the have and and have nots.
It depends on how you define "blue collar jobs."

While they may not match the traditional image in our heads, Delta's pilots and Tech Ops mechanics (both of which are highly paid) are most definitely blue collar jobs. But aside from those jobs at Delta, most of the other blue collar job opportunities that exist on the Southside are definitely on the lower end of the payscale.

Fayette County lucked out in the 1950s - 1970s from the combination of white flight from the city and a home builder (who has since gone bankrupt) that took strong interest in building a huge master-planned community there. This peaked the interest of Delta pilots and Tech Ops mechanics who wanted newer/bigger housing, a "safe" community away from "city" folks in Atlanta *AND* a short commute to the airport and they decided to establish themselves in this new master-planned community while bringing their incomes with them. Some of this has since organically bled over into parts of Coweta County (as the long-time homeowners in Fayette County now seek larger houses and lower taxes), but only slowly.

Last edited by citidata18; 09-26-2020 at 09:43 AM..
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Old 09-26-2020, 06:31 PM
 
31,994 posts, read 36,537,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citidata18 View Post
"...the project will include construction of the Porsche Service Center South Atlanta, followed by a Porsche Classic Factory Restoration facility..."

So again, sounds like glorifed repair and detail shops to me, ...
These things are more than just glorified repair and detailing places.
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Old 09-27-2020, 12:14 PM
 
2,096 posts, read 1,007,693 times
Reputation: 1054
Quote:
Originally Posted by citidata18 View Post
It depends on how you define "blue collar jobs."

While they may not match the traditional image in our heads, Delta's pilots and Tech Ops mechanics (both of which are highly paid) are most definitely blue collar jobs. But aside from those jobs at Delta, most of the other blue collar job opportunities that exist on the Southside are definitely on the lower end of the payscale.

Fayette County lucked out in the 1950s - 1970s from the combination of white flight from the city and a home builder (who has since gone bankrupt) that took strong interest in building a huge master-planned community there. This peaked the interest of Delta pilots and Tech Ops mechanics who wanted newer/bigger housing, a "safe" community away from "city" folks in Atlanta *AND* a short commute to the airport and they decided to establish themselves in this new master-planned community while bringing their incomes with them. Some of this has since organically bled over into parts of Coweta County (as the long-time homeowners in Fayette County now seek larger houses and lower taxes), but only slowly.
The majority of the metro not on the North but the East,West and South of which arent that much different from each other than the Northside.
Im talking $35,000 to $60,000 or which in Clayton,Douglas,Rockdale,Henry etc,you can live comfortably.
The median income for Fayette County is $87,000. Almost more than double that of Clayton and $20,000 more than Rockdale,Henry ,Douglaus.
Yes Clayton is on the lower end for the metro but its not last. Its also the most diverse outside of Fulton and Dekalb. You have a lot of immigrants as well as minorities that earn less normally.
Many mainstream institutions and retailers avoid these areas. Its not just because of income.

For instance there is not one Target in Clayton County. There was one on Mount Zion but they left.
Target is not a high end retailer and the area has incomes that mirror other neighborhoods that have more amenities and retailers.
Southlake Mall has made a significant come back and has some national retailers now .It has the only H&M ,Express and Macys among other retailers on the Southside.
For some reason you cant even keep an Old Navy as the only one closed around the same time Target left.

I do think there is a race component. You can look at how successful Marketplace at Camp Creek is in East Point but only after some serious efforts to get them to come did they come. I think once a retailer leaves ,they never come back but i dont understand why they left to begin with.
I think its one of the most successful malls now considering many have closed.

I think you are still focused on jobs earning $75,000+.Im talking about the majority of the metro not on the North but the East,West and South of which arent that much different from each other than the Northside.
Im talking $35,000 to $60,000 or which in Clayton,Douglas,Rockdale,Henry etc,you can live comfortably.
The median income for Fayette County is $87,000. Almost more than double that of Clayton and $20,000 more than Rockdale,Henry ,Douglaus.

Its simply not realistic to think majority of people are earning these high salaries.Clayton is showing sign of growth including incomes but will never in our lifetimes be anything close to what some of the wealthier suburbs are.
Ive seen a lot of quality of life improvements in the County and people find it surprising that the County actually ran pretty well under Jeff Turner. As long as it considers this gradual growth, Clayton will be more desireable as more people want and will be searching for affordable comfortable living in which Clayton has
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Old 09-27-2020, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,574 posts, read 10,695,143 times
Reputation: 6512
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverOne View Post
Its also the most diverse outside of Fulton and Dekalb. You have a lot of immigrants as well as minorities that earn less normally.
I'm not here to rag on Clayton or dispute most of what you're saying. I think the others are making too big of a deal to the fact that this move by Porsche simply isn't as big as a corporate relocation, but I just had to chime in on this.

There is a faulty ITP=diversity bias in this assumption.

Fulton and Dekalb are not the top 2 counties in the metro area for diversity.

By a wide margin it is Gwinnett Co. followed more distantly by Cobb. Clayton is not more diverse than those areas.

Both counties have more significant amounts of land lacking any majority race above a 50% threshold and significant amounts of land on diversity indicators that look beyond a white-black continuum. The most diverse areas in the metro area are OTP.

Parts of Dekalb are highly diverse, but wide swaths of it also are not. Fulton isn't actually all that diverse on the census tract level. I would argue Clayton is more diverse than Fulton, less diverse than North Dekalb, and much more diverse than South and Eastern Dekalb




https://33n.atlantaregional.com/mond...iversity-lives

The above map shows census tracts in the region where there is no majority race breaking the 50% threshold.






https://33n.atlantaregional.com/mond...ta-region-2018


The above map is more evolved as an index that examines more races. It also examines areas where there is still a majority race better. Still, if you overlay the first map on this map, you will see a trend. Those will be the region's most diverse areas.
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Old 09-28-2020, 03:24 AM
 
2,096 posts, read 1,007,693 times
Reputation: 1054
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
I'm not here to rag on Clayton or dispute most of what you're saying. I think the others are making too big of a deal to the fact that this move by Porsche simply isn't as big as a corporate relocation, but I just had to chime in on this.

There is a faulty ITP=diversity bias in this assumption.

Fulton and Dekalb are not the top 2 counties in the metro area for diversity.

By a wide margin it is Gwinnett Co. followed more distantly by Cobb. Clayton is not more diverse than those areas.

Both counties have more significant amounts of land lacking any majority race above a 50% threshold and significant amounts of land on diversity indicators that look beyond a white-black continuum. The most diverse areas in the metro area are OTP.

Parts of Dekalb are highly diverse, but wide swaths of it also are not. Fulton isn't actually all that diverse on the census tract level. I would argue Clayton is more diverse than Fulton, less diverse than North Dekalb, and much more diverse than South and Eastern Dekalb




https://33n.atlantaregional.com/mond...iversity-lives

The above map shows census tracts in the region where there is no majority race breaking the 50% threshold.






https://33n.atlantaregional.com/mond...ta-region-2018


The above map is more evolved as an index that examines more races. It also examines areas where there is still a majority race better. Still, if you overlay the first map on this map, you will see a trend. Those will be the region's most diverse areas.
Im aware of all this but my point was out of 28 or so counties in the metro,Clayton is one of the most diverse. On the Southside by far the most diverse.

As I mentioned Clayton also has a large diverse black and Latino population. I would love to see some demographics ny county on this
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Old 07-28-2022, 05:13 PM
 
2,084 posts, read 1,363,457 times
Reputation: 2288
How Porsche's Atlanta headquarters expansion is zooming along

Perhaps you’ve flown into Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport lately and noticed the vast expanse of churned red clay between the runways and downtown Atlanta.

That’d be the rip-roaring Porsche Experience Center getting significantly larger ..."

https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/p...arters-airport

Urbanize Atlanta
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Old 07-29-2022, 11:49 AM
 
1,339 posts, read 883,082 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
I'm not here to rag on Clayton or dispute most of what you're saying. I think the others are making too big of a deal to the fact that this move by Porsche simply isn't as big as a corporate relocation, but I just had to chime in on this.

There is a faulty ITP=diversity bias in this assumption.

Fulton and Dekalb are not the top 2 counties in the metro area for diversity.

By a wide margin it is Gwinnett Co. followed more distantly by Cobb. Clayton is not more diverse than those areas.

Both counties have more significant amounts of land lacking any majority race above a 50% threshold and significant amounts of land on diversity indicators that look beyond a white-black continuum. The most diverse areas in the metro area are OTP.

Parts of Dekalb are highly diverse, but wide swaths of it also are not. Fulton isn't actually all that diverse on the census tract level. I would argue Clayton is more diverse than Fulton, less diverse than North Dekalb, and much more diverse than South and Eastern Dekalb




https://33n.atlantaregional.com/mond...iversity-lives

The above map shows census tracts in the region where there is no majority race breaking the 50% threshold.






https://33n.atlantaregional.com/mond...ta-region-2018


The above map is more evolved as an index that examines more races. It also examines areas where there is still a majority race better. Still, if you overlay the first map on this map, you will see a trend. Those will be the region's most diverse areas.
Gwinnett is trending towards a ratio of 25% Asian, 25% White, 25% Black, 25% Hispanic/Latin. Some of the schools already have that type of ratio of students.
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