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Just giving a little pushback on that B2R- I lived in downtown Alpharetta from '09-'18, and not all of the changes have been positive. There is definitely less overt racism and there are more things to do- but there has also been a growing income inequality issue. Much of the commerce going on up there is by and for those in the six-figure salary range. Alpharetta used to be kind of conservative, but at the end of the day, everybody used the public school system and ate at the same restaurants. The range between the bottom and top rung of the ladder just wasn't such a vast expanse even 12 years ago. It's just not like this anymore.
Just giving a little pushback on that B2R- I lived in downtown Alpharetta from '09-'18, and not all of the changes have been positive. There is definitely less overt racism and there are more things to do- but there has also been a growing income inequality issue. Much of the commerce going on up there is by and for those in the six-figure salary range. Alpharetta used to be kind of conservative, but at the end of the day, everybody used the public school system and ate at the same restaurants. The range between the bottom and top rung of the ladder just wasn't such a vast expanse even 12 years ago. It's just not like this anymore.
Yes, the average income has definitely increased which is reflected by the townhome and home prices downtown. But aside from some parents sending their kids to Christian schools most I know happily use the public schools as I do.
Alpharetta, good or bad, has grown from a sleepy little town to a tech hub in itself. To get what was Alpharetta today you have to probably go out to Canton.
Just giving a little pushback on that B2R- I lived in downtown Alpharetta from '09-'18, and not all of the changes have been positive. There is definitely less overt racism and there are more things to do- but there has also been a growing income inequality issue. Much of the commerce going on up there is by and for those in the six-figure salary range. Alpharetta used to be kind of conservative, but at the end of the day, everybody used the public school system and ate at the same restaurants. The range between the bottom and top rung of the ladder just wasn't such a vast expanse even 12 years ago. It's just not like this anymore.
Those are really good points about increased income inequality and much of the commerce being aimed at residents with more affluent incomes.
(Though, it probably should be noted that the immediate Alpharetta area is home to at least 2 Walmart Supercenters, a Sam’s Club, some Kroger stores and multiple Publix stores that are affordable shopping destinations for modest-income earners, with about at least 2-3 Aldi stores also in immediate nearby areas.)
Alpharetta (along with much of North Fulton County and the area of South Forsyth County with an Alpharetta mailing address) still seems to lean more Republican than not, though the political definitely seems to be fluid at this point in time, particularly with continued rapid demographic changes in the area.
And like markjames68 mentioned, the public schools are still used by most residents in Alpharetta and North Fulton/South Forsyth counties, and appear to be popular to the point of attracting very large, almost overwhelming numbers of new residents and businesses from other states and other countries.
The income inequality admittedly is a strong concern, as it is for metro Atlanta, Georgia and the United States as a whole.
But one can argue that it is better to be a community that is attracting very large numbers of affluent newcomers with high incomes (along with the large numbers of people with more modest and lower incomes that also are heavily attracted to the area) than it is to be a community that primarily attracts large numbers of modest and lower income earners but few, if any, high income earners.
With metro Atlanta being a major (massive) migration/relocation destination for transient newcomers from all over the Eastern, Midwestern and Sun Belt parts of the country no matter what, it is not a bad thing (and one can even make a very strong argument that it is a very good thing) that a community like Alpharetta is also a major (massive) migration/relocation destination for affluent newcomers who have the higher incomes that will enable them to pump more money into the economy and the tax base.
... Increased money in the economy that creates more entry-level jobs that (while definitely not perfect) enables modest/lower-income/transient residents to generate some level of income for themselves while getting them active in the job market, and increased money in the tax base (from income, sales and property taxes) that funds higher levels of government services (like schools, public safety, sanitation, transportation, etc.).
Income inequality definitely is not a fair thing, but it’s much better to a major destination for both wealthy and disadvantaged people than it is to only be a destination for for disadvantaged people, or worse yet, be a community (like a Detroit, Flint, Buffalo, etc.) where many (if not most) of the affluent people have already left and many of the remaining poorer people (who have not yet fled) are stuck in a spiraling community waiting for the first opportunity to leave, when possible.
For a community like Alpharetta and North Fulton County, a once-impoverished rural community (the erstwhile Milton County) that went bankrupt and had to be absorbed into neighboring Fulton County during the 1930’s Great Depression, being a community that is in very high-demand with high income earners and affluent residents is a stunning reversal of fortune... A stunning reversal of fortune that likely is appreciated by those who are aware of what the area was like before the broad societal growth and prosperity of the post-World War II era led to the area being completely absorbed into Atlanta’s oft-criticized metropolitan sprawl.
It’s probably should be noted that Alpharetta, the affluent North Atlanta suburbs and metro Atlanta as a whole are not the only area dealing with income inequality being exacerbated by an overwhelming amount of affluent newcomers moving into the area.
Other large major Sun Belt and Southeastern metro regions (most notably Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Washington D.C., Texas, Florida, Las Vegas, etc.) as well as Western metros like Denver and Seattle, are having similar challenges with income inequality... That’s including seemingly more established Northeastern and California metros.
It’s just that metro Atlanta’s challenges with income inequality are going to be even more pronounced than many other large major high-growth and high-population metros because of Atlanta’s unique status as a “Mecca” (or very highly-desired/top migration/relocation destination) for African-Americans all over the country (including from high-poverty origination points in the greater American South, the Northeast, the Midwest and California) along with metro Atlanta’s status as a major relocation destination for affluent earners from all over the country and the world.
Those are really good points about increased income inequality and much of the commerce being aimed at residents with more affluent incomes.
(Though, it probably should be noted that the immediate Alpharetta area is home to at least 2 Walmart Supercenters, a Sam’s Club, some Kroger stores and multiple Publix stores that are affordable shopping destinations for modest-income earners, with about at least 2-3 Aldi stores also in immediate nearby areas.)
Alpharetta (along with much of North Fulton County and the area of South Forsyth County with an Alpharetta mailing address) still seems to lean more Republican than not, though the political definitely seems to be fluid at this point in time, particularly with continued rapid demographic changes in the area.
And like markjames68 mentioned, the public schools are still used by most residents in Alpharetta and North Fulton/South Forsyth counties, and appear to be popular to the point of attracting very large, almost overwhelming numbers of new residents and businesses from other states and other countries.
The income inequality admittedly is a strong concern, as it is for metro Atlanta, Georgia and the United States as a whole.
But one can argue that it is better to be a community that is attracting very large numbers of affluent newcomers with high incomes (along with the large numbers of people with more modest and lower incomes that also are heavily attracted to the area) than it is to be a community that primarily attracts large numbers of modest and lower income earners but few, if any, high income earners.
With metro Atlanta being a major (massive) migration/relocation destination for transient newcomers from all over the Eastern, Midwestern and Sun Belt parts of the country no matter what, it is not a bad thing (and one can even make a very strong argument that it is a very good thing) that a community like Alpharetta is also a major (massive) migration/relocation destination for affluent newcomers who have the higher incomes that will enable them to pump more money into the economy and the tax base.
... Increased money in the economy that creates more entry-level jobs that (while definitely not perfect) enables modest/lower-income/transient residents to generate some level of income for themselves while getting them active in the job market, and increased money in the tax base (from income, sales and property taxes) that funds higher levels of government services (like schools, public safety, sanitation, transportation, etc.).
Income inequality definitely is not a fair thing, but it’s much better to a major destination for both wealthy and disadvantaged people than it is to only be a destination for for disadvantaged people, or worse yet, be a community (like a Detroit, Flint, Buffalo, etc.) where many (if not most) of the affluent people have already left and many of the remaining poorer people (who have not yet fled) are stuck in a spiraling community waiting for the first opportunity to leave, when possible.
For a community like Alpharetta and North Fulton County, a once-impoverished rural community (the erstwhile Milton County) that went bankrupt and had to be absorbed into neighboring Fulton County during the 1930’s Great Depression, being a community that is in very high-demand with high income earners and affluent residents is a stunning reversal of fortune... A stunning reversal of fortune that likely is appreciated by those who are aware of what the area was like before the broad societal growth and prosperity of the post-World War II era led to the area being completely absorbed into Atlanta’s oft-criticized metropolitan sprawl.
It’s probably should be noted that Alpharetta, the affluent North Atlanta suburbs and metro Atlanta as a whole are not the only area dealing with income inequality being exacerbated by an overwhelming amount of affluent newcomers moving into the area.
Other large major Sun Belt and Southeastern metro regions (most notably Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Washington D.C., Texas, Florida, Las Vegas, etc.) as well as Western metros like Denver and Seattle, are having similar challenges with income inequality... That’s including seemingly more established Northeastern and California metros.
It’s just that metro Atlanta’s challenges with income inequality are going to be even more pronounced than many other large major high-growth and high-population metros because of Atlanta’s unique status as a “Mecca” (or very highly-desired/top migration/relocation destination) for African-Americans all over the country (including from high-poverty origination points in the greater American South, the Northeast, the Midwest and California) along with metro Atlanta’s status as a major relocation destination for affluent earners from all over the country and the world.
In Atlanta, Black citizens are the bread of butter of luxury stores. Without their patronage, those stores could not survive. They do have customers from all over the Southeast as the luxury brands only have stores here, but that wouldn't be enough with local customers, who have the money to buy their goods.
And the typical shopper is not a white, Betty Buckhead as some may think.
I say that income inequality is due to consumerism run amok. It's the little things that add up. $5 coffees, $3 coconut water gulped in 15 seconds.
In other words, it choices people make on how they spend.
What other country has as much opportunity to climb the rungs to achieve financial freedom?
If we took the nations' wealth and divided it up giving everyone an equal share, in 2-3 years we'd be back to the current situation.
I do believe that ultimately automation will mean more people than jobs and a universal basic income will be a good thing to keep the economy moving
Also everyone participating in the same systems that make the rich richer, such as the stock market. minimum wage jobs should all be in it too.
In Atlanta, Black citizens are the bread of butter of luxury stores. Without their patronage, those stores could not survive. They do have customers from all over the Southeast as the luxury brands only have stores here, but that wouldn't be enough with local customers, who have the money to buy their goods..
I would like to see some stats to back up this statement. We can say the black (and white) celebrity/entertainment class (which Atlanta has plenty of) is buying these luxury items. But I don’t think the “average” Black Atlantan (meaning the large majority) is blowing their paychecks on Versace, Jimmy Choos, and $100+ meals.
A rap video would have you thinking that. But in reality, it’s mostly smoke and mirrors. Secondly, I would contend that these places do make a large profit from visitors. Those from other places who want the experience of shopping in places often mentioned in the same music videos and songs I alluded to earlier... and of course, those who really are extremely wealthy. But I don’t think Black Atlantans are the majority of that demographic. It’s more than many other places in the country for sure, but there’s lots of new and old White money with discriminating taste along West Paces Ferry, Tuxedo Park, etc.
I say that income inequality is due to consumerism run amok. It's the little things that add up. $5 coffees, $3 coconut water gulped in 15 seconds.
In other words, it choices people make on how they spend..
I’m not 100% sure how true this statement is either. It’s true that unchecked consumerism is a thing (regardless of race). But “income equality” is about income, not necessarily amassed wealth. Like how and why more black people and women often make less money than their white and make counterparts, even with similar (or even higher) education, experience, expertise, etc. There are many other examples, but I’ll leave it at that...
I know this is a whole other discussion, but I think one should make that distinction. Spending and income are related, but are two different things. Perhaps you meant to say wealth gap. But interestingly enough, income inequality plays a role in that as well (among many other factors—including consumerism).
Like how and why more black people and women often make less money than their white and make counterparts, even with similar (or even higher) education, experience, expertise, etc.).
That should actually read white “male” counterparts. I was too late to edit, but if the mods could merge these comments to reduce the number of superfluous posts, I would be appreciate it.
What other country has as much opportunity to climb the rungs to achieve financial freedom?.
One last thing, I think you are discounting the many millions of Black Americans that do climb the rungs of the ladder to financial freedom and have been for centuries (regardless of previous situation). I agree that few other countries offer the opportunities for economic advancement. But if you are asking why Black Americans as a whole often do not reach the same level of financial freedom as White Americans (as a whole), then you are ignoring a great number of factors.
I can sort of see where your line of thinking is going. But you seem to view black people as one monolithic group, when they are, in fact, just as varied as their white, Asian, Latino, or (fill-in-the-blank) counterparts, of which there are many that are hardworking, frugal, and industrious as well as those who are not.
If you are talking about Americans as a whole, then I totally get it. But based on the your previous comment, it seemed like you were somehow singling out black people.
Sorry for the multiple posts lately, but I would be remiss if I did not specifically address these perceptions that you are propagating.
Last edited by equinox63; 02-08-2021 at 04:38 AM..
Just giving a little pushback on that B2R- I lived in downtown Alpharetta from '09-'18, and not all of the changes have been positive. There is definitely less overt racism and there are more things to do- but there has also been a growing income inequality issue. Much of the commerce going on up there is by and for those in the six-figure salary range. Alpharetta used to be kind of conservative, but at the end of the day, everybody used the public school system and ate at the same restaurants. The range between the bottom and top rung of the ladder just wasn't such a vast expanse even 12 years ago. It's just not like this anymore.
There is no magic wand to fix income inequality. "Equity" is the new term du jour being thrown around but nowhere has equal outcomes in life been guaranteed in America. For example someone with a 10th grade education is not guaranteed the same outcomes as someone with a law degree from Princeton. Equal opportunity does not result in equal outcomes because we deal with individuals. Everyone is different. Different skills, different characteristics, different intelligence, different work habits. You will have different outcomes. There are levels to this. Also, minimum wage jobs are not meant to be careers they are entry level jobs into the workforce to gain experience. If they were careers they would pay more. You are guaranteed the pursuit of such things but it requires more than just raising your hand.
We don't live in a meritocracy. Maybe that's the ideal to pursue, but we are not there. I feel like many of you have the convenience to ignore the problems that don't affect you. Which is fair— everybody's got more on their plate than they can deal with right now.
But what I get constantly on this forum is the implication that the problems I'm speaking about don't exist at all and the reason that some of us are having them is due to lack of initiative. Do you believe that is the case?
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