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What the SEC should be:
1. Georgia
2. Florida
3. Alabama
4. Auburn
5. South Carolina
6. Tennessee
7. Vanderbilt
8. LSU
9. Arkansas
10. Kentucky
11. NC State
12. Virginia Tech
13. Mississippi
14. Mississippi State
What the ACC should be:
1. Georgia Tech
2. Florida State
3. Miami
4. Clemson
5. North Carolina
6. Wake Forest
7. Duke
8. Virginia
9. Maryland
10. Syracuse
11. Boston College
12. *Penn State or Rutgers or UConn
Alternative ACC from above:
1. Georgia Tech
2. Florida State
3. Miami
4. Clemson
5. North Carolina
6. Wake Forest
7. Duke
8. Virginia
9. Maryland
10. Syracuse
11. Boston College
12. Penn State
13. Rutgers
14. UConn
Those are good lists, but there may be some notable issues that get in the way of those alignments coming together in the way that you listed above.
One, NC State most often underachieves in ACC competition in football and has longstanding rivalries (that sometimes seems to border on irrational infatuations) with UNC and Duke, particularly in basketball where the university often seems to focus much more of its attention than on football in the basketball-obsessed ‘Tobacco Road’ region of North Carolina.
So there’s probably very little chance that NC State would jump from a much more basketball-oriented situation in the ACC (which is a conference that traditionally has been dominated by the 4 North Carolina schools in almost all aspects of life outside of football) where it is most comfortable, to a football-obsessed environment in the SEC where NC State’s middling football program likely would be beat down each week by the likes of Alabama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M, Oklahoma and Texas and where NC State’s most beloved sport of basketball is often an afterthought.
Two, though historically a football school since about the 1980’s, Virginia Tech has some very strong and deep cultural and social ties to the Mid-Atlantic and the Northeast that might keep it from jumping to the SEC. Plus, VT has been a middling school in football as of late, so VT likely would be very hesitant to enter into the SEC football lion’s den with teams like AL, UF, UGA, LSU, Auburn, TAMU, TX, OK each week.
Three, Maryland completely financially destroyed its athletic program back in the 2000’s and needed the move to the B1G to bail them out of their financial issues because the poor TV contract that the ACC signed (that runs through like 2036) most certainly was not going to do it.
Though, if the ACC was ever to come into a really big pot of money (by, say, improbably adding Notre Dame to the league as a full member in the lead revenue-producing sport of football), Maryland maybe eventually could look back towards the ACC. Though Maryland very often griped and complained about the domination of the ACC by the 4 North Carolina schools when it was member of the ACC.
Four, Rutgers had some major issues with its athletic program (with strong accusations of player abuse, administrative and institutional control issues, etc.) that made the ACC pass on taking them even though Rutgers is located within the seemingly lucrative New York TV market.
The Big Ten had the financial, institutional and social heft and stability to be able to take on Rutgers and its institutional issues, even though there are howls from other Big Ten fan bases that Rutgers has done nothing to enhance the level of athletic competition (particularly in the big-2 revenue-generating sports of football and basketball) since joining the Big Ten about a decade ago.
Though there do seem to be persistent (but wholly unsubstantiated) rumors that Penn State could jump to the ACC to get away from Ohio State’s continued dominance of the B1G in football as well as the domination of the league by OSU and Michigan in non-football related matters.
But the Big Ten has a much better TV revenue situation that is likely to keep Penn State in that conference, whereas the ACC has a bad TV revenue situation that, absence the addition of Notre Dame to the league as a full member in football, the league is trapped in for the next 15 years.
They’ll rotate the games between Atlanta and Dallas. Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s something like Dallas once every four years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aries4118
What the SEC should be:
What the ACC should be:
1. Georgia Tech
2. Florida State
3. Miami
4. Clemson
5. North Carolina
6. Wake Forest
7. Duke
8. Virginia
9. Maryland
10. Syracuse
11. Boston College
12. *Penn State or Rutgers or UConn
Alternative ACC from above:
1. Georgia Tech
2. Florida State
3. Miami
4. Clemson
5. North Carolina
6. Wake Forest
7. Duke
8. Virginia
9. Maryland
10. Syracuse
11. Boston College
12. Penn State
13. Rutgers
14. UConn
Penn State and Rutgers, PSU especially, belong in the Big Ten institutionally. They’re both institutionally cut from the same cloth as all of the other large public universities in the Big Ten. UConn belongs in FCS for football which where the vast majority of their time has been spent in that sport.
Neither PSU or RU would ever leave the Big Ten. They both chased Big Ten membership for years, decades in Rutgers’ case. UConn would sell their souls for an ACC invite but their football program is why Louisville was invited rather than the Huskies and they’ve only gotten less attractive since then.
Those are good lists, but there may be some notable issues that get in the way of those alignments coming together in the way that you listed above.
One, NC State most often underachieves in ACC competition in football and has longstanding rivalries (that sometimes seems to border on irrational infatuations) with UNC and Duke, particularly in basketball where the university often seems to focus much more of its attention than on football in the basketball-obsessed ‘Tobacco Road’ region of North Carolina.
So there’s probably very little chance that NC State would jump from a much more basketball-oriented situation in the ACC (which is a conference that traditionally has been dominated by the 4 North Carolina schools in almost all aspects of life outside of football) where it is most comfortable, to a football-obsessed environment in the SEC where NC State’s middling football program likely would be beat down each week by the likes of Alabama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M, Oklahoma and Texas and where NC State’s most beloved sport of basketball is often an afterthought.
Two, though historically a football school since about the 1980’s, Virginia Tech has some very strong and deep cultural and social ties to the Mid-Atlantic and the Northeast that might keep it from jumping to the SEC. Plus, VT has been a middling school in football as of late, so VT likely would be very hesitant to enter into the SEC football lion’s den with teams like AL, UF, UGA, LSU, Auburn, TAMU, TX, OK each week.
Three, Maryland completely financially destroyed its athletic program back in the 2000’s and needed the move to the B1G to bail them out of their financial issues because the poor TV contract that the ACC signed (that runs through like 2036) most certainly was not going to do it.
Though, if the ACC was ever to come into a really big pot of money (by, say, improbably adding Notre Dame to the league as a full member in the lead revenue-producing sport of football), Maryland maybe eventually could look back towards the ACC. Though Maryland very often griped and complained about the domination of the ACC by the 4 North Carolina schools when it was member of the ACC.
Four, Rutgers had some major issues with its athletic program (with strong accusations of player abuse, administrative and institutional control issues, etc.) that made the ACC pass on taking them even though Rutgers is located within the seemingly lucrative New York TV market.
The Big Ten had the financial, institutional and social heft and stability to be able to take on Rutgers and its institutional issues, even though there are howls from other Big Ten fan bases that Rutgers has done nothing to enhance the level of athletic competition (particularly in the big-2 revenue-generating sports of football and basketball) since joining the Big Ten about a decade ago.
Though there do seem to be persistent (but wholly unsubstantiated) rumors that Penn State could jump to the ACC to get away from Ohio State’s continued dominance of the B1G in football as well as the domination of the league by OSU and Michigan in non-football related matters.
But the Big Ten has a much better TV revenue situation that is likely to keep Penn State in that conference, whereas the ACC has a bad TV revenue situation that, absence the addition of Notre Dame to the league as a full member in football, the league is trapped in for the next 15 years.
The Big Ten invited Rutgers and Maryland because none of UNC, UVA and Georgia Tech were interested in joining the Big Ten. They wanted two of those three much more than UMD and RU. One of my cousins was an administrator at Tech at the time and involved in the discussions about whether to reciprocate the Big Ten’s interest.
Penn State has never been seriously interested in joining the ACC. PSU’s invitation to the Big Ten was one of those rare occasions where the faculty and the athletic department were completely aligned in their objective, which was Big Ten membership.
States and schools like Texas and Oklahoma and Missouri (and Texas A&M) may not be in the Southeast, but the Southeast is where the money and power and prestige is, particularly in the most popular sport of big-time college football.
So states and schools like Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri and Texas A&M feel (and know) that it is in their best interests to align themselves with Southeastern states and schools.
Though it should be mentioned that the universities of Texas and Oklahoma talked to the Pac-12 and Big Ten (and maybe even the ACC?) about joining those conferences before talking to the SEC.
Texas and Oklahoma joining the SEC appears to be motivated purely by those universities’ pursuit of even larger (massive) sums of television money from telecasts of SEC football games on ESPN.
After their (decidedly self-centered) efforts to seek membership in the Pac-12 and the Big Ten fell through it looks like Texas and Oklahoma decided just to go for the money, because both Texas and Oklahoma know that (with the exception of less competitive football teams like Kentucky and Vanderbilt) the level of competition is going to be much more challenging in the SEC than in conferences like the Big-12, the Pac-12, the Big Ten and the ACC.
Yes - I know it's all about the money - and power/prestige.
And - Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri ain't even in the Southeast! G.T.F.O.
Most of the teams that matter in the SEC are closer to Atlanta than they are to Dallas. Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee are all traditional powerhouse schools in the conference. Even the Mississippi schools are closer to Atlanta not to metion SC, Vanderbilt and Kentucky. Only LSU, Texas Texas A&M and Oklahoma and Arkansas and Missouri are closer to Texas with only Oklahoma, the Texas schools and Arkansas being significantly closer to Dallas. It makes absolutely no sense to move the game to Dallas or another Texas city permanently. The most they can do is agree to rotate it every once in a while. Once again Texas arrogance has it feeling more important than it is. Texas and Oklahoma really do not belong in the SEC but money has the final say in all of this. Clemson or Florida State fit better with the culture of the SEC than Oklahoma or Texas does.
Yes. Great post.
For the SEC: Add NC State and Virginia Tech. (See post above)
They’ll rotate the games between Atlanta and Dallas. Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s something like Dallas once every four years.
Penn State and Rutgers, PSU especially, belong in the Big Ten institutionally. They’re both institutionally cut from the same cloth as all of the other large public universities in the Big Ten. UConn belongs in FCS for football which where the vast majority of their time has been spent in that sport.
Neither PSU or RU would ever leave the Big Ten. They both chased Big Ten membership for years, decades in Rutgers’ case. UConn would sell their souls for an ACC invite but their football program is why Louisville was invited rather than the Huskies and they’ve only gotten less attractive since then.
Those are good lists, but there may be some notable issues that get in the way of those alignments coming together in the way that you listed above.
One, NC State most often underachieves in ACC competition in football and has longstanding rivalries (that sometimes seems to border on irrational infatuations) with UNC and Duke, particularly in basketball where the university often seems to focus much more of its attention than on football in the basketball-obsessed ‘Tobacco Road’ region of North Carolina.
So there’s probably very little chance that NC State would jump from a much more basketball-oriented situation in the ACC (which is a conference that traditionally has been dominated by the 4 North Carolina schools in almost all aspects of life outside of football) where it is most comfortable, to a football-obsessed environment in the SEC where NC State’s middling football program likely would be beat down each week by the likes of Alabama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M, Oklahoma and Texas and where NC State’s most beloved sport of basketball is often an afterthought.
Two, though historically a football school since about the 1980’s, Virginia Tech has some very strong and deep cultural and social ties to the Mid-Atlantic and the Northeast that might keep it from jumping to the SEC. Plus, VT has been a middling school in football as of late, so VT likely would be very hesitant to enter into the SEC football lion’s den with teams like AL, UF, UGA, LSU, Auburn, TAMU, TX, OK each week.
Three, Maryland completely financially destroyed its athletic program back in the 2000’s and needed the move to the B1G to bail them out of their financial issues because the poor TV contract that the ACC signed (that runs through like 2036) most certainly was not going to do it.
Though, if the ACC was ever to come into a really big pot of money (by, say, improbably adding Notre Dame to the league as a full member in the lead revenue-producing sport of football), Maryland maybe eventually could look back towards the ACC. Though Maryland very often griped and complained about the domination of the ACC by the 4 North Carolina schools when it was member of the ACC.
Four, Rutgers had some major issues with its athletic program (with strong accusations of player abuse, administrative and institutional control issues, etc.) that made the ACC pass on taking them even though Rutgers is located within the seemingly lucrative New York TV market.
The Big Ten had the financial, institutional and social heft and stability to be able to take on Rutgers and its institutional issues, even though there are howls from other Big Ten fan bases that Rutgers has done nothing to enhance the level of athletic competition (particularly in the big-2 revenue-generating sports of football and basketball) since joining the Big Ten about a decade ago.
Though there do seem to be persistent (but wholly unsubstantiated) rumors that Penn State could jump to the ACC to get away from Ohio State’s continued dominance of the B1G in football as well as the domination of the league by OSU and Michigan in non-football related matters.
But the Big Ten has a much better TV revenue situation that is likely to keep Penn State in that conference, whereas the ACC has a bad TV revenue situation that, absence the addition of Notre Dame to the league as a full member in football, the league is trapped in for the next 15 years.
Very good and accurate points, challenges, and truths. Love it. And remember...
This is what the SEC should be:
1. Georgia
2. Florida
3. Alabama
4. Auburn
5. South Carolina
6. Tennessee
7. Vanderbilt
8. LSU
9. Arkansas
10. Kentucky
11. NC State
12. Virginia Tech
13. Mississippi
14. Mississippi State
This is what the ACC should be:
1. Georgia Tech
2. Florida State
3. Miami
4. Clemson
5. North Carolina
6. Wake Forest
7. Duke
8. Virginia
9. Maryland
10. Syracuse
11. Boston College
12. *Penn State or Rutgers or UConn
A possible alternative version of the ACC:
1. Georgia Tech
2. Florida State
3. Miami
4. Clemson
5. North Carolina
6. Wake Forest
7. Duke
8. Virginia
9. Maryland
10. Syracuse
11. Boston College
12. Penn State
13. Rutgers
14. UConn
Yes - I know it's all about the money - and power/prestige.
And - Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri ain't even in the Southeast! G.T.F.O.
That and stability. Consolidation of the most valuable brands has been the trend in college athletics since the mid 1980s. The SEC is a safe harbor in addition to being an incredibly lucrative one for UT and OU.
Agreed but they were the best option for that slot. Roughly 80% of the value in media contracts, maybe more like 70% for the ACC, is from football. That’s why Louisville was invited. Georgia Tech was strongly opposed to UConn and in favor of Louisville.
Agreed but they were the best option for that slot. Roughly 80% of the value in media contracts, maybe more like 70% for the ACC, is from football. That’s why Louisville was invited. Georgia Tech was strongly opposed to UConn and in favor of Louisville.
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