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This Buckhead thing has been very perplexing to me, but I think I'm developing my opinion on it. For reference, I'm a young professional who has lived in Midtown for nearly a decade now.
First, it's clearly not actually about crime (except to a handful of hardcore NIMBYs), that's just the wedge. It feels like it's an acknowledgement of the metro's shifted center of gravity to the northern suburbs. Atlanta has developed from the suburbs inward, not from the city outward. That's the most naive part of the anti-Buckhead argument, that Atlanta is the 'driver' of the growth. It's totally backwards. Atlanta happens to be a geographic logistics hub, and then the suburbs developed around that economic growth, and then the city developed around the suburbs. Gwinnett County, West Cobb, etc went from literal farmland to fully-developed suburbs while the City of Atlanta (outside of Buckhead) completely stagnated...the region draws people with the suburbs; the CoA is, and always has been, just along for the ride during the Atlanta boom. It does not sell itself the way that, say, Manhattan does. It's not like the Atlanta political machine has been making inspired moves to drive this growth. They're just...there.
So it becomes a real question to Buckhead, for obvious reasons, and also the rest of the metro and state: why are we letting this dinosaur 1970's-style urban political machine vacuum up so much tax money and political power? The vast majority of the state and its political leaders are clearly pro-business, so when they're having to fight off Keisha Lance Bottoms trying to shut everything down indefinitely back in 2020, you can imagine them wanting to just be done with all of this. Buckhead and north are so fully-developed at this point that they really don't need the city, at all (see: Cobb County Braves). The CoA has, what, a few tall buildings? Downtown is awful and just some government office buildings, Midtown has a few nice blocks, and a stretch of East Atlanta is nice. What else is there? I'm a big-city guy, but if I'm being honest, the perimeter CBD areas feel more lively than the main Atlanta one.
It feels like a pretty big shot across the bow at the Atlanta political fiefdom that they need to play ball a lot better with the rest of the state. I don't think a vote will ever happen (the media will present it as nothing short of genocide if it gets that far), and the next mayor will obviously be a Democrat, but I'm guessing the next one won't govern as if they're in San Francisco. As an Atlanta resident, I know I'm 'supposed' to be against this, but you have to have your head in the sand to not see Buckhead's point here. The Atlanta DNC got a little big for their britches in 2020 and this whole thing is a pretty natural retaliation.
This Buckhead thing has been very perplexing to me, but I think I'm developing my opinion on it. For reference, I'm a young professional who has lived in Midtown for nearly a decade now.
First, it's clearly not actually about crime (except to a handful of hardcore NIMBYs), that's just the wedge. It feels like it's an acknowledgement of the metro's shifted center of gravity to the northern suburbs. Atlanta has developed from the suburbs inward, not from the city outward. That's the most naive part of the anti-Buckhead argument, that Atlanta is the 'driver' of the growth. It's totally backwards. Atlanta happens to be a geographic logistics hub, and then the suburbs developed around that economic growth, and then the city developed around the suburbs. Gwinnett County, West Cobb, etc went from literal farmland to fully-developed suburbs while the City of Atlanta (outside of Buckhead) completely stagnated...the region draws people with the suburbs; the CoA is, and always has been, just along for the ride during the Atlanta boom. It does not sell itself the way that, say, Manhattan does. It's not like the Atlanta political machine has been making inspired moves to drive this growth. They're just...there.
So it becomes a real question to Buckhead, for obvious reasons, and also the rest of the metro and state: why are we letting this dinosaur 1970's-style urban political machine vacuum up so much tax money and political power? The vast majority of the state and its political leaders are clearly pro-business, so when they're having to fight off Keisha Lance Bottoms trying to shut everything down indefinitely back in 2020, you can imagine them wanting to just be done with all of this. Buckhead and north are so fully-developed at this point that they really don't need the city, at all (see: Cobb County Braves). The CoA has, what, a few tall buildings? Downtown is awful and just some government office buildings, Midtown has a few nice blocks, and a stretch of East Atlanta is nice. What else is there? I'm a big-city guy, but if I'm being honest, the perimeter CBD areas feel more lively than the main Atlanta one.
It feels like a pretty big shot across the bow at the Atlanta political fiefdom that they need to play ball a lot better with the rest of the state. I don't think a vote will ever happen (the media will present it as nothing short of genocide if it gets that far), and the next mayor will obviously be a Democrat, but I'm guessing the next one won't govern as if they're in San Francisco. As an Atlanta resident, I know I'm 'supposed' to be against this, but you have to have your head in the sand to not see Buckhead's point here. The Atlanta DNC got a little big for their britches in 2020 and this whole thing is a pretty natural retaliation.
You make some excellent points about this current Buckhead cityhood movement not necessarily being just about crime (which is being used as a wedge issue) and about much of the metropolitan area’s center of gravity having shifted to the Northern suburbs.
Though some points where you are likely to get some significant pushback is the assertion that the City of Atlanta proper has “just been along for the ride during the Atlanta boom” and that the City of Atlanta political machine has not been making inspired moves to drive the Atlanta region’s growth.
Even with all of the City of Atlanta political machine’s obvious and numerous flaws, one very critically important thing to remember is that it has been the City of Atlanta political machine that has made the constant massive investments in Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport over the past nearly 100 years that have generated and powered the greater Atlanta region’s and the state of Georgia’s impressive amount of economic growth during that time.
Without the City of Atlanta’s initial investment in that abandoned racetrack back in 1925 and without the CoA’s continued massive investment into developing that site into a piece of air transportation infrastructure that the CoA eventually grew into the world’s busiest airport, most of the massive growth (including the massive suburban and exurban growth) that the greater Atlanta metropolitan region and the state of Georgia has experienced during most of that time does not happen.
Continually and constantly investing in developing the site of an abandoned racetrack into the world’s busiest airport over the course of nearly 10 decades is one of the absolute most inspired investments and moves to drive growth that a municipal government like the City of Atlanta proper can make.
The massive suburban and exurban development that has occurred in outlying areas all metro Atlanta and North Georgia over the past nearly 8 decades now has been an outgrowth of the economic growth that the City of Atlanta proper has relentlessly driven with its continued constant massive financial investment in a critically important piece of transportation infrastructure such as Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.
And without the CoA’s constant continued investment in a piece of air transportation infrastructure that has been the world’s busiest airport from 1998 through 2019 and remains the world’s 2nd-busiest airport as of 2021, most of the massive post-World War II-era suburban and exurban growth that the greater Atlanta region and North Georgia has experienced does not happen.
... Atlanta’s and Georgia’s berth as host of the 1996 Summer Olympics does not happen, the massive years-long spike in growth that the greater Atlanta region and state of Georgia experienced after being named the host of the games in 1990 does not happen, Atlanta’s stunning growth into a major international hub of music production during the decade of the 1990’s does not happen, Atlanta’s growth into a major convention hub does not happen, metro Atlanta’s and Georgia’s stunning growth and development into a top-2 leading international hub of television and film production does not happen and metro Atlanta’s growth into a major hub of tech industry activity all does not happen without the extremely critically important financial investment that City of Atlanta political machine has made and continues to make in Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.
And speaking of the 1996 Summer Olympics... It was a coalition led by Buckhead civic leader Billy Payne and former United Nations ambassador and City of Atlanta mayor Andrew Young that led the way in helping Atlanta win the bid to host the ‘96 Olympics.
It was also the City of Atlanta political machine that invested in bringing major-league professional sports to metro Atlanta and the state of Georgia with the funding of the construction of Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium (where the MLB’s Atlanta Braves and the NFL’s Atlanta Falcons originally played) and The Omni Coliseum (where the NBA’s Atlanta Hawks played from 1972 to 1997).
Even with that governing body’s very obvious flaws and shortcomings, it is abundantly clear that the City of Atlanta political machine has played an exceedingly active and leading role in driving economic growth for the greater Atlanta region and the state of Georgia as a whole.
You make some excellent points about this current Buckhead cityhood movement not necessarily being just about crime (which is being used as a wedge issue) and about much of the metropolitan area’s center of gravity having shifted to the Northern suburbs.
Though some points where you are likely to get some significant pushback is the assertion that the City of Atlanta proper has “just been along for the ride during the Atlanta boom” and that the City of Atlanta political machine has not been making inspired moves to drive the Atlanta region’s growth.
I agree. The suburbs wouldn't exist in the first place without Atlanta, and they aren't sustainable without Atlanta's continued investment in the airport and its worldwide image as a brand. Outside the metro, no one knows or cares where Alpharetta or Gwinnett County are. As someone who lives just outside the Perimeter but spends most of my time in the city, I certainly don't care and routinely shut down recruiters as soon as they tell me about job opportunities in Alpharetta or Gwinnett. It turns out a lot of those businesses are looking to move to Midtown the way NCR did.
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Originally Posted by Smocaine
This Buckhead thing has been very perplexing to me, but I think I'm developing my opinion on it. For reference, I'm a young professional who has lived in Midtown for nearly a decade now.
First, it's clearly not actually about crime (except to a handful of hardcore NIMBYs), that's just the wedge. It feels like it's an acknowledgement of the metro's shifted center of gravity to the northern suburbs. Atlanta has developed from the suburbs inward, not from the city outward. That's the most naive part of the anti-Buckhead argument, that Atlanta is the 'driver' of the growth. It's totally backwards. Atlanta happens to be a geographic logistics hub, and then the suburbs developed around that economic growth, and then the city developed around the suburbs. Gwinnett County, West Cobb, etc went from literal farmland to fully-developed suburbs while the City of Atlanta (outside of Buckhead) completely stagnated...the region draws people with the suburbs; the CoA is, and always has been, just along for the ride during the Atlanta boom. It does not sell itself the way that, say, Manhattan does. It's not like the Atlanta political machine has been making inspired moves to drive this growth. They're just...there.
The pattern of development you're describing is what happened to every metro in the Sunbelt post-WWII with the creation of the interstates followed by favorable lending policies and social unrest that fueled white flight in the 60s-80s. Yes, the city population stagnated, but the city itself was still a draw for corporate HQs and ultimately the winning bid for the Olympics, which was the vision of former UN Ambassador Andrew Young and Billy Payne to draw the explosive growth to the entire metro from then on. It was the classic example of Atlanta's fruitful partnership between City Hall and Buckhead business leaders working as ONE that was able to pull that off. It would be idiotic to kill that goose now that we have Microsoft's east coast HQ and who knows what else in the pipeline.
So it becomes a real question to Buckhead, for obvious reasons, and also the rest of the metro and state: why are we letting this dinosaur 1970's-style urban political machine vacuum up so much tax money and political power? The vast majority of the state and its political leaders are clearly pro-business, so when they're having to fight off Keisha Lance Bottoms trying to shut everything down indefinitely back in 2020, you can imagine them wanting to just be done with all of this. Buckhead and north are so fully-developed at this point that they really don't need the city, at all (see: Cobb County Braves). The CoA has, what, a few tall buildings? Downtown is awful and just some government office buildings, Midtown has a few nice blocks, and a stretch of East Atlanta is nice. What else is there? I'm a big-city guy, but if I'm being honest, the perimeter CBD areas feel more lively than the main Atlanta one.
You can criticize KLB all you want, but the shutdown was necessary, but because we never really shut down, we attracted a lot of people who wanted to party because they couldn't in their home state, and crime went through the roof. The jails started filling up with people who weren't even from Georgia and clogged up our courts. Ironically, it's the crime spike that is being used as a wedge issue.
And how exactly are these state representatives pro-business when every time you turn around, they're introducing legislation that penalizes business like the jet fuel tax to hurt Delta over a petty fight with the NRA or the voting rules that have discriminatory outcomes that spurred calls for boycotts of Georgia businesses and the loss of the MLB All-Star Game? There are several other own goals they've done to hurt Georgia businesses while they try to rile up their base with red meat legislation.
As for your characterization of downtown and Midtown, there's no way you could look at all the cranes on the skyline over the past five years and the coming Gulch project, which will be the largest of its kind in the country and write off the core of the city as dead or not as lively as Marietta Square. Even the Summerhill neighborhood where the Braves used to play will be a much more lively place than The Battery at Truist Park when it gets built out. Losing the Braves was a psychological blow, but the city will come out ahead, while the Braves are stuck out in a suburban island surrounded by 20 lanes of traffic on all sides.
It feels like a pretty big shot across the bow at the Atlanta political fiefdom that they need to play ball a lot better with the rest of the state. I don't think a vote will ever happen (the media will present it as nothing short of genocide if it gets that far), and the next mayor will obviously be a Democrat, but I'm guessing the next one won't govern as if they're in San Francisco. As an Atlanta resident, I know I'm 'supposed' to be against this, but you have to have your head in the sand to not see Buckhead's point here. The Atlanta DNC got a little big for their britches in 2020 and this whole thing is a pretty natural retaliation.
Considering that all the big players involved are Republicans from outside the city, or a recent transplant like Bill White, I'm not sure they're representative of Buckhead at large. Most people in Buckhead up and down the socioeconomic spectrum vote Democrat, so if there's anyone reaching for the brass ring here, it's the Georgia GOP, which has consistently over the decades done whatever it takes to diminish the CITY of Atlanta's dominance as the economic and social driver on the state and national scenes. Why that is? Well, we know, but we're too busy to hate, right?
Last edited by cparker73; 10-03-2021 at 10:53 AM..
This Buckhead thing has been very perplexing to me, but I think I'm developing my opinion on it. For reference, I'm a young professional who has lived in Midtown for nearly a decade now.
First, it's clearly not actually about crime (except to a handful of hardcore NIMBYs), that's just the wedge. It feels like it's an acknowledgement of the metro's shifted center of gravity to the northern suburbs. Atlanta has developed from the suburbs inward, not from the city outward. That's the most naive part of the anti-Buckhead argument, that Atlanta is the 'driver' of the growth. It's totally backwards. Atlanta happens to be a geographic logistics hub, and then the suburbs developed around that economic growth, and then the city developed around the suburbs. Gwinnett County, West Cobb, etc went from literal farmland to fully-developed suburbs while the City of Atlanta (outside of Buckhead) completely stagnated...the region draws people with the suburbs; the CoA is, and always has been, just along for the ride during the Atlanta boom. It does not sell itself the way that, say, Manhattan does. It's not like the Atlanta political machine has been making inspired moves to drive this growth. They're just...there.
So it becomes a real question to Buckhead, for obvious reasons, and also the rest of the metro and state: why are we letting this dinosaur 1970's-style urban political machine vacuum up so much tax money and political power? The vast majority of the state and its political leaders are clearly pro-business, so when they're having to fight off Keisha Lance Bottoms trying to shut everything down indefinitely back in 2020, you can imagine them wanting to just be done with all of this. Buckhead and north are so fully-developed at this point that they really don't need the city, at all (see: Cobb County Braves). The CoA has, what, a few tall buildings? Downtown is awful and just some government office buildings, Midtown has a few nice blocks, and a stretch of East Atlanta is nice. What else is there? I'm a big-city guy, but if I'm being honest, the perimeter CBD areas feel more lively than the main Atlanta one.
It feels like a pretty big shot across the bow at the Atlanta political fiefdom that they need to play ball a lot better with the rest of the state. I don't think a vote will ever happen (the media will present it as nothing short of genocide if it gets that far), and the next mayor will obviously be a Democrat, but I'm guessing the next one won't govern as if they're in San Francisco. As an Atlanta resident, I know I'm 'supposed' to be against this, but you have to have your head in the sand to not see Buckhead's point here. The Atlanta DNC got a little big for their britches in 2020 and this whole thing is a pretty natural retaliation.
Seems to me that companies like AirBNB, Microsoft, Apple and Google opening hubs are investing in Atlanta's future and not the northern suburbs. No one is coming to visit Atlanta because of the things they heard about downtown Alpharetta, they are visiting the Georgia Aquarium and Centennial Park. Super Bowl and NBA All-Star events didn't happen here because of the great time to be had in Johns Creek, not to mention the annual Peach Bowl The suburbs did have the MLB All-Star game, but it wasn't the DNC that screwed that up, it was the Georgia Republicans. The vast majorities of major conventions are occuring in downtown Atlanta. Though you might not want to admit, the Atlanta Metro and Georgia as a whole have experienced growth and prosperity because of decisions and moves made by Atlanta leaders going clear back to the Olympics as Born 2 Roll stated. It was when local Atlanta civic, political and business leaders worked together through turmoil that propelled the city forward, and why business leaders in Buckhead are so against this foolishness. It was when the state and local Atlanta leaders were on the same page working towards the same goals regardless of political party that growth and prosperity occurred across the metro and state. It's attempts to divide and partisan politics that threaten the future.
On the topic of COVID, I don't recall the restrictions put in place by cities such as Sandy Springs being all that different than those of Atlanta.
Seems to me that companies like AirBNB, Microsoft, Apple and Google opening hubs are investing in Atlanta's future and not the northern suburbs. No one is coming to visit Atlanta because of the things they heard about downtown Alpharetta, they are visiting the Georgia Aquarium and Centennial Park. Super Bowl and NBA All-Star events didn't happen here because of the great time to be had in Johns Creek, not to mention the annual Peach Bowl The suburbs did have the MLB All-Star game, but it wasn't the DNC that screwed that up, it was the Georgia Republicans. The vast majorities of major conventions are occuring in downtown Atlanta. Though you might not want to admit, the Atlanta Metro and Georgia as a whole have experienced growth and prosperity because of decisions and moves made by Atlanta leaders going clear back to the Olympics as Born 2 Roll stated. It was when local Atlanta civic, political and business leaders worked together through turmoil that propelled the city forward, and why business leaders in Buckhead are so against this foolishness. It was when the state and local Atlanta leaders were on the same page working towards the same goals regardless of political party that growth and prosperity occurred across the metro and state. It's attempts to divide and partisan politics that threaten the future.
On the topic of COVID, I don't recall the restrictions put in place by cities such as Sandy Springs being all that different than those of Atlanta.
I agree. The suburbs wouldn't exist in the first place without Atlanta, and they aren't sustainable without Atlanta's continued investment in the airport and its worldwide image as a brand. Outside the metro, no one knows or cares where Alpharetta or Gwinnett County are. As someone who lives just outside the Perimeter but spends most of my time in the city, I certainly don't care and routinely shut down recruiters as soon as they tell me about job opportunities in Alpharetta or Gwinnett. It turns out a lot of those businesses are looking to move to Midtown the way NCR did.
And without the City of Atlanta’s continued massive investment in the Airport over the past almost 10 decades, Atlanta most likely would be not much larger than Birmingham is today... And Atlanta’s suburbs and outlying satellite business districts (including Cumberland, Perimeter, Alpharetta and Buckhead) very likely would be nothing on the scale that they have become with the presence of the City of Atlanta-funded Hartsfield-Jackson Airport helping to fuel their massive growth.
Considering that all the big players involved are Republicans from outside the city, or a recent transplant like Bill White, I'm not sure they're representative of Buckhead at large. Most people in Buckhead up and down the socioeconomic spectrum vote Democrat, so if there's anyone reaching for the brass ring here, it's the Georgia GOP, which has consistently over the decades done whatever it takes to diminish the CITY of Atlanta's dominance as the economic and social driver on the state and national scenes. Why that is? Well, we know, but we're too busy to hate, right?
It's more likely about "owning the libs" than race.
And without the City of Atlanta’s continued massive investment in the Airport over the past almost 10 decades, Atlanta most likely would be not much larger than Birmingham is today... And Atlanta’s suburbs and outlying satellite business districts (including Cumberland, Perimeter, Alpharetta and Buckhead) very likely would be nothing on the scale that they have become with the presence of the City of Atlanta-funded Hartsfield-Jackson Airport helping to fuel their massive growth.
Hence why Burt Jones and his ilk want to grab the airport from the CoA.
The idiots in the legislature are hell-bent on shredding the city and tearing it apart to the point where it's nothing but a poor, black, economically-deficient, politically-neutered core that they can continue to blame for their woes.
Hence why Burt Jones and his ilk want to grab the airport from the CoA.
The idiots in the legislature are hell-bent on shredding the city and tearing it apart to the point where it's nothing but a poor, black, economically-deficient, politically-neutered core that they can continue to blame for their woes.
This. Such self-destructive behavior, but its been going on for years.
Hence why Burt Jones and his ilk want to grab the airport from the CoA.
Jones and his cronies want the airport for the same very reason the people in control of the airport don't want to lose control of the airport. The money. Do you know how much of a honeypot the airport provides in bribes, kickbacks, etc for local politicians? That's the reason any group wants control of the airport. The money. Thinking otherwise is delusional.
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The idiots in the legislature are hell-bent on shredding the city and tearing it apart to the point where it's nothing but a poor, black, economically-deficient, politically-neutered core that they can continue to blame for their woes.
You haven't been paying attention to demographic trends the last 20 years. The days of a poor black Atlanta are disappearing by the year.
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Jones and his cronies want the airport for the same very reason the people in control of the airport don't want to lose control of the airport. The money. Do you know how much of a honeypot the airport provides in bribes, kickbacks, etc for local politicians? That's the reason any group wants control of the airport. The money. Thinking otherwise is delusional. 
