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I've been divided over the truck only Lanes TOL. I see some benefits.
In many ways I think this is a test to see if they are worthwhile, but they aren't building them South bound or on I-75 north of Atlanta yet either. They are targeted on that stretch, because they are expecting 80k~100k cars a day on that stretch and are anticipating nearly 40% of them being trucks by 2040. The assumption is in the next 2 or 3 decades that corridor will need a major widening on way or another.
What they are testing is if splitting up the car and truck traffic, by their appropriate flow numbers, can each independently operate more efficiently separated from one another. Cars and trucks mostly travel, accelerate, and brake at different speeds from one another. This gamble is having a 3x2 separation will slow better than 5 lanes together. There is also long-term maintenance savings of the general purpose lanes by trucks not actively using them.
I did hear it mentioned that the cost of 4x4 (no TOL) from Macon to McDonough would cost more than $2 billion and is one reason it wasn't tested as an alternate option, even though it provides spaces for both north and south. There was apparently a cost savings to building a new separate corridor with their own bridges to the side over reconstructing existing bridges, overpasses, and re-configuring existing exits. However, it means you have to spend more to make it 5 lanes vs. 4 lanes total in one direction.
I also think there is an a desire to keep the trucks moving, despite seasonal vacation traffic.
It's an interesting concept. The main reason I'm remotely ok with this gamble, is how important logistics transportation is to our economy and there seems to be strong future growth in manufacturing if we can keep the trucks safely moving a majority of the time. Increases truck congestion could cause us to lose desirability for future growth from larger manufacturers.
I'm not sure that this is the best way forward or not. In some ways the data simply doesn't exist, because this is a new idea (on this scale and in this way). I think it will be interesting to look at in 2030. I also think if this concept is to be tested, they are picking the single best corridor to try it on.
I’m a big proponent of separating automobile and freight truck traffic if and when possible, so I guess that, ideally, I would prefer to see truck-only lanes on both directions of a major transcontinental Interstate superhighway route like I-75 between Atlanta and Macon. But I know that there is nowhere near enough money in the transportation budget for that, so I guess that I will reluctantly have to accept the truck-only lanes on only the northbound direction of I-75 south of Atlanta.
Though, I do kind of lament that the state has not been able to implement the truck-only lane concept much earlier, particularly on metro Atlanta Interstate superhighways.
I also kind of lament that the state went all-in on an Outer Perimeter concept that, in hindsight, they probably should have recognized would be exceedingly difficult, if not just downright impossible, to execute, both because of the significant political sensitivities of the area involved (particularly north and northwest of Atlanta) and because of the history of controversial large-scale road construction projects being disrupted and/or defeated by an often road construction-averse public in metro Atlanta and North Georgia.
The road that comes to mind is the New Jersey Turnpike where it interchanges with I-95 just northeast of Philadelphia all the way to Newark. I believe that road is on average 12 lanes across, 3 lanes each way in the center for cars only, and 3 lanes each way on the outer side for cars AND trucks. Somewhat similar effect.. ..somewhat...
For I-75 between Macon and McDonough, one major bonus for automobiles are the hills that trucks climb on that route. Cars will not have to slow down or move over to avoid trucks which cannot easily climb. Given the amount of truck traffic that passes through Georgia, I think truck only lanes will alleviate alot of conflicts between cars and trucks which will free up capacity even during vacation periods.. ..although.. the stretch between McDonough and Macon will probably still need upgrades eventually. Hopefully Georgia can do this in a way that the lanes can be added to General Purpose Capacity if the project doesn't go as planned.. ..more than likely if it doesn't though, it will probably be converted to a HOT lane - perhaps with a higher speed limit too since grading and curves will be made softer as they're intended for trucks.
I can't help but wonder though if the trucking lobbyist will in some way pinch in for the funding for this project. I personally feel that they should.. not only does this keep money reserved for other transportation improvements but rightfully allocates truck capacity as well as needed road maintenance incurred from the trucking industry...while in leu of this, trucks would not need to pay for tolls on an outer perimeter if one should ever get built.
Last edited by Need4Camaro; 10-04-2021 at 08:14 AM..
The road that comes to mind is the New Jersey Turnpike where it interchanges with I-95 just northeast of Philadelphia all the way to Newark. I believe that road is on average 12 lanes across, 3 lanes each way in the center for cars only, and 3 lanes each way on the outer side for cars AND trucks. Somewhat similar effect.. ..somewhat...
For I-75 between Macon and McDonough, one major bonus for automobiles are the hills that trucks climb on that route. Cars will not have to slow down or move over to avoid trucks which cannot easily climb. Given the amount of truck traffic that passes through Georgia, I think truck only lanes will alleviate alot of conflicts between cars and trucks which will free up capacity even during vacation periods.. ..although.. the stretch between McDonough and Macon will probably still need upgrades eventually. Hopefully Georgia can do this in a way that the lanes can be added to General Purpose Capacity if the project doesn't go as planned.. ..more than likely if it doesn't though, it will probably be converted to a HOT lane - perhaps with a higher speed limit too since grading and curves will be made softer as they're intended for trucks.
I can't help but wonder though if the trucking lobbyist will in some way pinch in for the funding for this project. I personally feel that they should.. not only does this keep money reserved for other transportation improvements but rightfully allocates truck capacity as well as needed road maintenance incurred from the trucking industry
As notably powerful as the trucking lobby is at the Gold Dome (the Georgia State Capitol), it is likely that the trucking industry will not be contributing anything extra to the I-75 truck-only lanes project south of Atlanta beyond the $0.32 per gallon tax that trucks pay on diesel fuel in the state of Georgia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
...while in leu of this, trucks would not need to pay for tolls on an outer perimeter if one should ever get built.
The Outer Perimeter seems to be nothing more than a pipe dream at this point in time.
GDOT (the Georgia Department of Transportation) can’t even propose to make needed improvements to widen Georgia State Route 20 north of Atlanta between Cumming and Canton without various onlookers (including local residents, regional environmentalists, etc.) screaming that it’s part of a larger conspiratorial plot to resurrect the widely unpopular and much hated ‘Northern Arc’ segment of the highly controversial Outer Perimeter.
Not to mention that politicians down at the Gold Dome have been conditioned not to say the names ‘Northern Arc’ or ‘Outer Perimeter’ in public or anywhere where metro Atlanta voters and constituents (particularly powerful North metro Atlanta voters and constituents) might be able to witness them saying it.
Also, not to mention that it often may take GDOT so long to attempt to execute these projects that it often gives the opposition more than enough time to organize and eventually severely disrupt and/or even completely defeat the proposed project.
In lieu of a new Outer Perimeter superhighway, the best that we probably can hope for at this point in time are maybe some truck-only lanes along the top half of the I-285 Perimeter and the busiest segments of mainline radial Interstates just outside of it.
And even that is likely to take a very long time to come into existence because GDOT currently is completely infatuated with toll lanes as a prescribed solution to traffic congestion on a politically (and socially and culturally) constricted freeway system around metro Atlanta and North Georgia.
If you need a truck only lane where they traverse the entire state, that freight needs to be pushed off the road onto rail. I get short haul trips are more practical on pavement than rail, but interstate traffic following an interstate route should not be done in bulk by semis. It seems like trucking is getting a free ride here with Fed / State infrastructure money, and no, $.32 a gallon tax does not make up for their costs. The state already has a great port with rail hookups, build that out more!
If they cater to the truckers for the 'economy' that money may or may not end back up in the state or local residents hands...
If you need a truck only lane where they traverse the entire state, that freight needs to be pushed off the road onto rail. I get short haul trips are more practical on pavement than rail, but interstate traffic following an interstate route should not be done in bulk by semis. It seems like trucking is getting a free ride here with Fed / State infrastructure money, and no, $.32 a gallon tax does not make up for their costs. The state already has a great port with rail hookups, build that out more!
If they cater to the truckers for the 'economy' that money may or may not end back up in the state or local residents hands...
It's just not that simple though in the logistic industry. The two methods of transit while accomplishing a similar goal, are not the same and both have their strengths and weaknesses which largely determine which method of transportation industries use.
Rail transit for freight is great for items that are not needed immediately. Typically that cargo can sit untouched for a substantial period of time, and even if it is needed within a reasonable period, it is not an 'on-demand' item and the orders are typically placed in bulk in an advance periods of time. Not every industry is capable of purchasing large bulks of items to transport by rail (this is necessary because without truck linear truck transportation, transit speeds are greatly reduced) or even if they could, they may not have the place to store large quantities.
Truck transit isn't just about local freight but also on-demand freight and the transportation thereof as quickly as possible, typically between two businesses, or items that are produced, transported, and received to be used or consumed as quickly as possible. Some of these items are literally produced to meet an immediate cause and must be transported quickly rather than sit on a train and await the time to redistribute at a distribution center. Many businesses depend on this cargo to be ordered and arrive within a narrow window for contracts obligations or SLA's to be met. Not every business is capable of forecasting how much of a specific item they need in such advance periods, or if they can - it will eat into profit margins. This may 'sound' like entitlement but this very attribute will also affect wages of local employees.
I believe we are technically already pretty close to using rail to the fullest extent we 'feasibly' can for freight.
Last edited by Need4Camaro; 10-04-2021 at 01:54 PM..
If you need a truck only lane where they traverse the entire state, that freight needs to be pushed off the road onto rail. I get short haul trips are more practical on pavement than rail, but interstate traffic following an interstate route should not be done in bulk by semis. It seems like trucking is getting a free ride here with Fed / State infrastructure money, and no, $.32 a gallon tax does not make up for their costs. The state already has a great port with rail hookups, build that out more!
If they cater to the truckers for the 'economy' that money may or may not end back up in the state or local residents hands...
In addition to the 3 state-funded inland ports, there is also a massive privately-operated intermodal terminal (reportedly one of largest in the world) at the Norfolk Southern Whitaker Intermodal Terminal in the west-northwest Atlanta suburb of Austell along with at least a couple of other privately-operated intermodal terminals in the Atlanta area (including at Inman Yard in Northwest Atlanta and at the CSX Yard in Fairburn).
So there have been concerted efforts by both Georgia state government and the private sector to reduce freight truck traffic on local Interstate superhighways to the extent that might be possible.
But like Need4Camaro alluded to, only so much freight truck traffic can be removed from the roads by rail, especially when there are so many businesses and so much economic activity generating massive demand for truck transport and when so much of the economy (including restaurants, cafeterias, grocery stores, hospitals and medical services, etc.) is based on and built around the just-in-time freight delivery services that only freight trucks can provide.
The problem is most people think of the northern arc from the late '90s early '00s.
Development is so far north the idea of a complete perimeter in the northern areas is probably out of the question.
However, there is a good argument to be made that it can still be done in the other directions and that growth hasn't pushed out that far (and there are no mountains/lakes to block the way).
Getting trucks from I-75 South to alternative routes to both I-75 North and I-85 north are the most important for freight logistics.
The main benefit of the northern arc was for suburb to suburb commuters. An east and west side outer belt would help with through traffic.
It also will provide a much needed alternative route. When there is an accident, there simply are no choices with the way Alanta has built its freeways and the limited arterial network.
As notably powerful as the trucking lobby is at the Gold Dome (the Georgia State Capitol), it is likely that the trucking industry will not be contributing anything extra to the I-75 truck-only lanes project south of Atlanta beyond the $0.32 per gallon tax that trucks pay on diesel fuel in the state of Georgia.
The Outer Perimeter seems to be nothing more than a pipe dream at this point in time.
GDOT (the Georgia Department of Transportation) can’t even propose to make needed improvements to widen Georgia State Route 20 north of Atlanta between Cumming and Canton without various onlookers (including local residents, regional environmentalists, etc.) screaming that it’s part of a larger conspiratorial plot to resurrect the widely unpopular and much hated ‘Northern Arc’ segment of the highly controversial Outer Perimeter.
Not to mention that politicians down at the Gold Dome have been conditioned not to say the names ‘Northern Arc’ or ‘Outer Perimeter’ in public or anywhere where metro Atlanta voters and constituents (particularly powerful North metro Atlanta voters and constituents) might be able to witness them saying it.
Also, not to mention that it often may take GDOT so long to attempt to execute these projects that it often gives the opposition more than enough time to organize and eventually severely disrupt and/or even completely defeat the proposed project.
In lieu of a new Outer Perimeter superhighway, the best that we probably can hope for at this point in time are maybe some truck-only lanes along the top half of the I-285 Perimeter and the busiest segments of mainline radial Interstates just outside of it.
And even that is likely to take a very long time to come into existence because GDOT currently is completely infatuated with toll lanes as a prescribed solution to traffic congestion on a politically (and socially and culturally) constricted freeway system around metro Atlanta and North Georgia.
You need a political leader willing to take the heat and make the case. Georgia hasn't had any of those.
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