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The age of the automobile and resulting suburban sprawl created the problem, as usual. Rural areas outside of towns became generic cookie cutter sprawling subdivision-land. All the sudden, lots of people lived well outside the historic town of Marietta, but also well outside the historic town of Roswell. They just live in the eastern part of Cobb, eg., East Cobb. East Cobb is not a city, just like South Fulton should not be a city.
The other part of the whole problem is that Georgia only recognizes one type of municipality: a city. If there was a such thing as townships, then East Cobb could be a township. Mableton could be like a village. But those things don't exist in Georgia.
Townships in the northeast are like sub-areas of counties. Something like that would have been more appropriate for an area like Johns Creek, rather than calling it a city, which it most definitely isn't.
The age of the automobile and resulting suburban sprawl created the problem, as usual. Rural areas outside of towns became generic cookie cutter sprawling subdivision-land. All the sudden, lots of people lived well outside the historic town of Marietta, but also well outside the historic town of Roswell. They just live in the eastern part of Cobb, eg., East Cobb.
Those are some really good points, though it wasn’t just the age of the automobile alone that created Cobb County’s sprawling suburban development patterns.
It has been the presence of the massive Lockheed Martin aerospace defense plant just outside of the corporate limits of the City of Marietta during the age of the dominance of the automobile that helped to hypercharge suburban growth in Cobb County over the past 7 decades.
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Originally Posted by primaltech
East Cobb is not a city, just like South Fulton should not be a city.
With the current proposal for the creation of an East Cobb municipality appearing to be strongly motivated by a social reaction to Cobb County’s recent and ongoing change from its historic total Republican and conservative dominance to rising Democratic Party control, it can be debated whether the factions pushing for the creation of an East Cobb municipality have the best motivations and intentions for doing so.
But in the case of the young City of South Fulton, South Fulton appeared to be strongly motivated to become a city because it was the last remaining unincorporated area in Fulton County and wanted to keep much more of the tax revenue generated within its land area from being spent in other parts of Fulton County by Fulton County government.
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Originally Posted by primaltech
The other part of the whole problem is that Georgia only recognizes one type of municipality: a city. If there was a such thing as townships, then East Cobb could be a township. Mableton could be like a village. But those things don't exist in Georgia.
Townships in the northeast are like sub-areas of counties. Something like that would have been more appropriate for an area like Johns Creek, rather than calling it a city, which it most definitely isn't.
Township governance can vary, sometimes widely, from state-to-state in the parts of the country where township governance is lawfully present in the Northeastern and the Upper Midwestern states.
In some states, townships are like you stated subdivisions of counties that may only handle limited public services like schools, fire protection, cemetery maintenance and some public assistance, while in other states townships may provide a full array of municipal services and may even just be another name for and/or another form of municipal governance.
In a large major metropolitan area like Atlanta, it probably should not be much of a surprise that many communities are wanting to form their own municipal governments as a means of managing local issues (like zoning, sanitation, public safety, economic development, etc.) that can become much more complex as an area grows with people and business and experiences demographic changes.
A big part of the motivation for a community like Mableton wanting to become its own municipality seems to be that the community wants local leaders who will pay much more attention to local issues like economic development than Cobb County government leaders might be able to provide as the county’s population continues to grow, along with the perception and/or reality that Cobb County government pays more attention to more affluent and higher revenue-generating parts of the county (like East Cobb, West Cobb, Cumberland and the I-75 corridor) than it does to South Cobb.
It currently looks to many like East Cobb could have both better motivations and a better proposal for municipal governance at this point. But if local communities legitimately feel that they need more localized governance and attention through the formation of their own municipalities, then those local communities probably should have the ability to pursue the legal option that Georgia state law allows it to pursue through cityhood.
None of the city related stuff in Metro Atlanta has made any sense in the last 20 years. Creating entirely new "cities" out of thin air, drawing up ridiculous borders, annexing areas that clearly should have belonged to another city, etc. There's no way all this is making the metro area better.
Cobb would have been better off as a consolidated city-county of Marietta. Like Athens-Clarke and Augusta-Richmond.
That's the only true city in the county. The rest are just old tiny villages and modern made-up subdivision areas.
Cobb County and Marietta most likely would not have been compatible as a consolidated city-county government because unincorporated Cobb County and the incorporated City of Marietta seems to have widely differing governing priorities.
Unincorporated Cobb County’s governing model and priorities historically have largely involved providing important government services to unincorporated suburban neighborhoods at the lowest possible costs to taxpayers while approving and permitting (and very often actively encouraging) large amounts of new development, often on a mass scale.
The City of Marietta’s governing priorities largely have involved governing a smaller urbanized municipality with some very meaningful historic elements in a long-established jurisdiction with a unique small-townish civic identity and sense of community.
And for reasons of history and community pride (including the community pride that revolves around Marietta High School), the City of Marietta most likely also would not want to relinquish control of its smaller independent city schools system to the larger Cobb County Schools system.
1) With a few exceptions (like the proposed city of Mableton being one), these new "cities" created or proposed since 2005 are not cities, they're just suburban sprawl subdivisions with a border drawn around them. It's ridiculous.
2) Even if they were real cities, they're causing even more balkanization, in an area that's constantly ruined by balkanization.
There needs to be consolidation. Way too many counties, way too many municipalities... whole thing is a mess, and that's why the Atlanta region can't get anything done.
1) With a few exceptions (like the proposed city of Mableton being one), these new "cities" created or proposed since 2005 are not cities, they're just suburban sprawl subdivisions with a border drawn around them. It's ridiculous.
2) Even if they were real cities, they're causing even more balkanization, in an area that's constantly ruined by balkanization.
There needs to be consolidation. Way too many counties, way too many municipalities... whole thing is a mess, and that's why the Atlanta region can't get anything done.
I agree. There are just too many hands in the pot here. It isn't going to change any time soon though. And from the other side most of these cities do a much better job than the county governments did. Imo some sort of overarching entity that allows for local control but has the ability to coordinate plans on a regional level would be ideal. ARC with teeth.
1) With a few exceptions (like the proposed city of Mableton being one), these new "cities" created or proposed since 2005 are not cities, they're just suburban sprawl subdivisions with a border drawn around them. It's ridiculous.
2) Even if they were real cities, they're causing even more balkanization, in an area that's constantly ruined by balkanization.
There needs to be consolidation. Way too many counties, way too many municipalities... whole thing is a mess, and that's why the Atlanta region can't get anything done.
I agree with most of this but what the anything that the Atlanta region get done? I think the region is doing fine overall in the grand scheme of things.
1) With a few exceptions (like the proposed city of Mableton being one), these new "cities" created or proposed since 2005 are not cities, they're just suburban sprawl subdivisions with a border drawn around them. It's ridiculous.
2) Even if they were real cities, they're causing even more balkanization, in an area that's constantly ruined by balkanization.
There needs to be consolidation. Way too many counties, way too many municipalities... whole thing is a mess, and that's why the Atlanta region can't get anything done.
I certainly wouldn’t go as far as saying that the new cities created in metro Atlanta since 2005 are not real cities.
Even if many of the cities created in metro Atlanta since 2005 do consist of sprawling single-family home subdivision developments, the desire for more localized governance (in the form of incorporated municipal governance as permitted by Georgia state law) comes from many more residents being in an area now than when these areas were sparsely developed exurban spaces and undeveloped rural spaces.
There is also a very strong argument to be made that it is not the creation of new municipalities in a fast-growing metropolitan area like Atlanta that is causing balkanization and lack of action on regional issues like transportation (particularly when it comes to the expansion of the Atlanta region’s transit and arterial road networks), but rather it is the often severe lack of action and leadership from Georgia state government on issues like the expansions of the Atlanta region’s transit and arterial road networks.
The Atlanta region often can’t get anything done on expanding its regional transit and arterial road networks because of a failure of Georgia state government to lead the way on those multi-jurisdictional regional issues.
It is a lack of state leadership on transportation issues which often has been by design in a metro Atlanta and greater North Georgia region where voters very often have let it be known that they do not want Georgia state government to be proactive on transportation issues, but instead Georgia state government to be reactive on transportation issues so that they (the voters) basically can keep government planners and political leaders on a short leash when it comes to issues like transit and arterial road expansion... This in a region where voters notably often can be very cool to the idea of both large-scale transit and arterial road construction projects outside of the I-285 Perimeter.
More localized governance (in the form of municipal incorporation) can be a good thing in communities where a majority of residents support it and in cases where the intentions of such proposals have good direction and intentions.
Sandy Springs (which started off the current wave of suburban Atlanta municipal incorporations in 2005) had wanted to be an incorporated municipality for decades (since about the 1950’s) but was blocked from becoming one by the old Georgia Democrats who held the majority in the Georgia state legislature for over 130 years before 2002.
While definitely far from perfect, Sandy Springs seems to be an example of a recently incorporated municipality which seems to have been at least fairly effective (significantly more effective than Fulton County government seemed to be) in governing a suburban community that continues to experience significant urbanization pressures.
I agree. There are just too many hands in the pot here. It isn't going to change any time soon though. And from the other side most of these cities do a much better job than the county governments did. Imo some sort of overarching entity that allows for local control but has the ability to coordinate plans on a regional level would be ideal. ARC with teeth.
That overarching entity that you describe already exists in the form of Georgia state government, which is toothless on many regional matters (like transportation) because the metro Atlanta/North Georgia voting public wants and prefers them to be that way.
The Atlanta region often can’t get anything done on expanding its regional transit and arterial road networks because of a failure of Georgia state government to lead the way on those multi-jurisdictional regional issues.
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That overarching entity that you describe already exists in the form of Georgia state government, which is toothless on many regional matters (like transportation) because the metro Atlanta/North Georgia voting public wants and prefers them to be that way.
What is this, Scooby Doo? It was your average neighbor Joe, all along, preventing transportation investment? "And I would have gotten away with it, too..." lol.
Whoever is to blame for the issues, they need to not do that anymore.
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Sandy Springs (which started off the current wave of suburban Atlanta municipal incorporations in 2005) had wanted to be an incorporated municipality for decades (since about the 1950’s) but was blocked from becoming one by the old Georgia Democrats who held the majority in the Georgia state legislature for over 130 years before 2002.
While definitely far from perfect, Sandy Springs seems to be an example of a recently incorporated municipality which seems to have been at least fairly effective (significantly more effective than Fulton County government seemed to be) in governing a suburban community that continues to experience significant urbanization pressures.
That one's okay, definitely not an egregious example. I think having Sandy Springs be a neighborhood of Atlanta would have been better. But, there is at least history with the Sandy Springs identity, at least around the Roswell/Hammond intersection area.
Dunwoody is okay, too. There was at least an historical area there known as Dunwoody. But if they focused on the village area there along Mt Vernon, that would be a lot more authentic than focusing on the anti-authentic Perimeter Mall area.
Brookhaven should have been part of Atlanta, especially since half of Brookhaven (the Fulton County side) IS in Atlanta.
What is this, Scooby Doo? It was your average neighbor Joe, all along, preventing transportation investment? "And I would have gotten away with it, too..." lol.
Whoever is to blame for the issues, they need to not do that anymore.
Yep. It pretty much has been the voting public who, both for better or for worse, often has been the real source of resistance to large-scale transportation initiatives in the Atlanta region (including rail transit expansion beyond Fulton, and DeKalb counties; the construction of a second major airport in the Atlanta region; the construction of an Outer Perimeter loop highway; putting tolls on Georgia 316; the 2012 regional T-SPLOST referendum, etc.).
And the public resistance to large-scale transportation initiatives of regional impact often has been so notable (if not resounding) in the past that many Georgia politicians have learned not only to not cross metro Atlanta/North Georgia voters on certain hot-button transportation issues, but have learned to not even mention certain hot-button transportation issues (including the Outer Perimeter, putting tolls on GA-316; rail transit expansion, etc.).
And one probably shouldn’t expect those transportation infrastructure-averse forces to stop anytime soon because those transportation infrastructure-averse forces know that they have lots of political power to remain power players in shaping Atlanta regional and Georgia state transportation policy from numerous past political successes.
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Originally Posted by primaltech
That one's okay, definitely not an egregious example. I think having Sandy Springs be a neighborhood of Atlanta would have been better. But, there is at least history with the Sandy Springs identity, at least around the Roswell/Hammond intersection area.
Dunwoody is okay, too. There was at least an historical area there known as Dunwoody. But if they focused on the village area there along Mt Vernon, that would be a lot more authentic than focusing on the anti-authentic Perimeter Mall area.
Brookhaven should have been part of Atlanta, especially since half of Brookhaven (the Fulton County side) IS in Atlanta.
Both Dunwoody and the DeKalb County side of Brookhaven incorporated into municipalities because they both had the financial resources and political resources and connections to do so as affluent and then-Republican dominated areas in a state with a Republican-dominated state government in Georgia.
Because the DeKalb County side of Brookhaven had the immense resources needed to incorporate as a city, the DeKalb County side of Brookhaven did not have to and was not going to be part of the City of Atlanta, especially when the DeKalb County side of Brookhaven seemed to so desire to become its own city for purposes of having more control over and giving more attention to zoning, economic development and public safety than what DeKalb County government seemed to be able to give.
Meanwhile, Sandy Springs was never going to be a neighborhood of the City of Atlanta because, before officially incorporating in 2005, Sandy Springs had strongly wanted to be a municipality since at least about 1960, while the City of Atlanta (which notably had wanted to annex Sandy Springs into its territory as a way of desperately attempting to help the City of Atlanta maintain a white majority during an era when the city’s black population was very quickly rising and growing towards an eventual majority back when William Hartsfield was still mayor) became much less enamored with the idea of annexing a majority-white and Republican Sandy Springs into a majority Black and Democratic City of Atlanta after African-Americans took control of Atlanta city government with the election of Maynard Jackson as Atlanta’s first black mayor in 1973.
Sandy Springs very strongly did not want to be part of the City of Atlanta, and the City of Atlanta did not want Sandy Springs to be part of its territory because of the very strong and contrasting political, social and cultural differences between the neighboring areas. Sandy Springs being annexed into the City of Atlanta was not at all a viable idea.
And Sandy Springs as a municipality appears to be working as the city works towards developing a village area with higher-density mixed-use development, along with apparent improvements in providing services like zoning, economic development, law enforcement, code enforcement, sanitation, etc.
But Sandy Springs is not the only recently incorporated suburban metro Atlanta municipality that appears to be experiencing at least a considerable degree of effectiveness and success in governing.
Other recently incorporated suburban metro Atlanta municipalities (including Tucker, Peachtree Corners, Johns Creek, Milton, Brookhaven, Dunwoody, Chattahoochee Hills, Stonecrest and even South Fulton) also appear to be experiencing varying degrees of at least noticeable effectiveness and success in governing.
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