Midtown Atlanta growth and development since 2010 (middle-class, house, construction)

[dtyfygiu]

Originally Posted by Smocaine

Wait, what? $672 for a new-construction 3-bedroom apartment in Downtown?
Is there more to this story? That is unthinkable. That's like reading an article about a guy just casually selling 1-kg gold bars for $10. Like, there's obviously a catch here. Even $970 for the mid-range apartments is unbelievably low. Will you have to go through a special application process to live there or something? That's not just 'affordable', that's like a 60-80% discount over normal rates, to the point that you have to seriously think about what kind of people will live there and how the building will function with them (I have a feeling there will be a lot of 2am-on-a-weeknight parties and yelling with a dash of major pest control problems).


I mean, I'm theoretically open to it, I guess, but this feels like a rehash of post-war housing projects and we saw how that went. It's not affordable housing at that point, it's just subsidized housing; public money is clearly involved somewhere along the line if I'm seeing a $672 3-bedroom apartment. I'm a big believer in cheapening housing naturally through new construction at market rates rather than trying to force it with subsidized rents, and I can say I'm extremely surprised to see that this project is happening in Atlanta.

Yeah that's definitely subsidized/section 8 housing. A 1 bedroom going for $672 in downtown would be insane, let alone a 3 bedroom.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by dtyfygiu

Yeah that's definitely subsidized/section 8 housing. A 1 bedroom going for $672 in downtown would be insane, let alone a 3 bedroom.

Dumb question. Is Section 8 not considered affordable housing?

Which begs the question: What is affordable housing?

[ShenardL]

Originally Posted by Smocaine

Wait, what? $672 for a new-construction 3-bedroom apartment in Downtown?
Is there more to this story? That is unthinkable. That's like reading an article about a guy just casually selling 1-kg gold bars for $10. Like, there's obviously a catch here. Even $970 for the mid-range apartments is unbelievably low. Will you have to go through a special application process to live there or something? That's not just 'affordable', that's like a 60-80% discount over normal rates, to the point that you have to seriously think about what kind of people will live there and how the building will function with them (I have a feeling there will be a lot of 2am-on-a-weeknight parties and yelling with a dash of major pest control problems).


I mean, I'm theoretically open to it, I guess, but this feels like a rehash of post-war housing projects and we saw how that went. It's not affordable housing at that point, it's just subsidized housing; public money is clearly involved somewhere along the line if I'm seeing a $672 3-bedroom apartment. I'm a big believer in cheapening housing naturally through new construction at market rates rather than trying to force it with subsidized rents, and I can say I'm extremely surprised to see that this project is happening in Atlanta.

The church owns the land and that's what they want, mostly affordable housing. Even with those cheap rents, the church will have a very nice income stream.

[Atlanta-Native]

Originally Posted by ShenardL

The church owns the land and that's what they want, mostly affordable housing. Even with those cheap rents, the church will have a very nice income stream.

Is the church leasing the land out and getting income off of that, or are they getting a % of the rent?

[Smocaine]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Dumb question. Is Section 8 not considered affordable housing?

Which begs the question: What is affordable housing?

IMO, affordable housing would ideally be the backlog of older buildings in a real estate market that has a healthy supply-demand relationship in a market that's not being manipulated by NIMBYs and government financial policies. In other words, something that, by definition, probably won't really ever exist in SFH-obsessed, NIMBY-controlled Atlanta.

Subsidized housing is just playing a shell game to avoid actual solutions. An apartment isn't suddenly 'affordable' simply because the taxpayers are picking up a portion of the tab.

[Smocaine]

Originally Posted by ShenardL

The church owns the land and that's what they want, mostly affordable housing. Even with those cheap rents, the church will have a very nice income stream.

I hope I'm not accused of negativity for being skeptical that the church is doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. I've always had questions about the absurd number of tiny little churches sitting on prime real estate in Midtown/Downtown and what the real story is. My experience with dealing with supposedly benevolent real estate developers for low-income people or the elderly: follow the money to find the real story.
There are two scenarios: it ends up being a bait-and-switch where these apartments end up being 95% market rate units, or the taxpayers end up making the church whole on the subsidized units.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by Smocaine

I've always had questions about the absurd number of tiny little churches sitting on prime real estate in Midtown/Downtown and what the real story is.

A lot of these churches bought the land decades ago (1970s-80s) when downtown real estate prices were at its nadir.

[Smocaine]

Originally Posted by Gulch

A lot of these churches bought the land decades ago (1970s-80s) when downtown real estate prices were at its nadir.

Certainly; the question is why are they not selling? I don't think most reasonable people have a problem with legitimately active churches sitting on low-value land and enjoying a tax-free status while engaging in pretty straightforward charitable and community-oriented activities at a scale that is appropriate to the taxes they don't have to pay. Like a nice Baptist church somewhere in Cobb County. I do think there is a problem with churches using their tax-free status to hoard valuable land and engage in real-estate speculation, which is very obviously happening. There's a pointless little church sitting on every block in the southern half of Midtown. I am genuinely surprised that it doesn't get talked about more. I guess that there are bigger fish to fry given all the empty lots/surface parking lots, but I mean, come on.

[bryantm3]

Minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. Affordable housing would mean 1/3 of the monthly income at that wage. But rent is barely affordable anywhere in ATL even if you make double that. You have to have live in a trap house with roommates or get on public assistance.

We have a big problem here and no one is addressing it. Wages are so low that the government has to subsidize peoples' incomes. People working 60 hours a week and still be barely scraping by living in a rat infested hellhole. It's not a surprise that so many businesses can't find workers. The wages are just too low.

That's how shortages work- when the price is too low on a good, suppliers can't make the economics work. That's what's happening now with labor. It's basic economics- but you won't find CEOs saying that. They suddenly don't like the game when it stops working in their favor.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by Smocaine

Certainly; the question is why are they not selling? I don't think most reasonable people have a problem with legitimately active churches sitting on low-value land and enjoying a tax-free status while engaging in pretty straightforward charitable and community-oriented activities at a scale that is appropriate to the taxes they don't have to pay. Like a nice Baptist church somewhere in Cobb County. I do think there is a problem with churches using their tax-free status to hoard valuable land and engage in real-estate speculation, which is very obviously happening. There's a pointless little church sitting on every block in the southern half of Midtown. I am genuinely surprised that it doesn't get talked about more. I guess that there are bigger fish to fry given all the empty lots/surface parking lots, but I mean, come on.

They're waiting for the mother of all windfalls.