What's blocking the expansion of rail mass transit? (Atlanta, Sandy Springs: apartment, condos)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by CEN2RION

I am going to guess the very powerful US airline lobby.

There's that, plus people in the ATL are not hollering for rail mass transit. If there was more popular demand the government would probably be more likely to respond.

[grin123]

Like somebody else mentioned I think in this thread or the MARTA news thread, Atlanta doesn't have the politcal will nor density to support mass transit. And I don't think most of the metro cares.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Don't know who Jack is, but the real facts here are limiting.

I'm going to merely address one haphazardly created fact and you can get back to whatever fantasyland you want to carve out for yourself spewing long misleading posts as repetitively as possible.

The 33.7 kWh in terms of an electric car is not meant to be the equivalent of one gallon of gas in a literal way.

It comes from a energy use rating called MPGe, which is not always the metrics used.

A MPGe rating is how far a car can go on a fixed 33.7 kWh charge. It is always based on a 33.7 kWh charge and the mileage varies, but it not the equivalent of the same model with one gallon of gas. It is frequently much higher than most ICE cars can go on one gallon of gas.

Another metric is simply how much energy it takes a car to travel 100 miles.

A Tesla model 3 can go 100 miles on 24 kWh consumption, converted to MPGe would be 140 miles per 33.7kWh. There aren't many cars out there going 140 miles on a gallon of gas. A Ford Mustang is rated at 34 kWh per 100 miles, almost the same as 33.7kWh, so even with weaker performance a ICE Ford Mustang is not going to go nearly 100 miles on one gallon of gas.

This makes your initial energy use estimate wrong by 4-6x and that is before addressing other assumptions.

The private market is investing heavily in creating the infrastructure needed to build, recycle and maintain these types of cars and batteries right now. There is a $2.6B plant being built in Commerce alone just for building batteries for cars.

It won't happen over night, but it's happening.

. . . .

IT WILL MAKE ANYONE SOUND SMARTER TO TYPE IN ALL CAPS AND WRITE UNBEARABLY LONG POSTS OFF SUBJECT AND INACCURATE FACTS [/sarcasm]

. . . .

Thank you. You have a lot more patience for this discussion than I do.

[SEAandATL]

Originally Posted by grin123

Like somebody else mentioned I think in this thread or the MARTA news thread, Atlanta doesn't have the politcal will nor density to support mass transit. And I don't think most of the metro cares.

I don't think most of the metro cares to be like Tokyo. But then again it's mostly the same people that don't care that they've always been wearing masks during the cold and flu seasons.

[jetgraphics]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

A Tesla model 3 can go 100 miles on 24 kWh consumption, converted to MPGe would be 140 miles per 33.7kWh..

I wouldn't be so sure about those figures.
Best results used hypermiling techniques such as front motor only, low speed 24 mph (39 km/h), no air conditioning and minimal use of the brakes.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla/model-3/
The Tesla Model 3 with the 60-kWh battery promises an EPA-rated 215-mile range.

60 kWh / 215 mi => 28 kWh / 100 mi
And when you factor in electricity production inefficiencies, the vaunted BEV isn't that great.

POWER GENERATION EFFICIENCY
OIL: 38%
COAL: 45%
NUCLEAR: 37%
Natural Gas: 57%
Hydroelectric: 90%

The U.S. grid loses about 5 percent of all the electricity generated through transmission and distribution. (95% efficient)
https://spectrum.ieee.org/how-effici...ts-complicated
Depending on factors like the ambient-air temperature, how empty the battery is when you start charging, and the supply voltage to your EV's charging unit, the efficiency of charging can vary between 70 percent and 90 percent.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml
BEV 77% efficiency

• [petroleum] => ICE vehicle (35-45%)
• [petroleum] => Electricity generator (38%) => Distribution network (95%) => Battery charger (90%) => BEV (77%) [overall = 25%]

OIL: 38%; 25% overall
COAL: 45%; 30% overall
NUCLEAR: 37%; 24% overall
Natural Gas: 57%; 38% overall
Hydroelectric: 90%; 59% overall

So if you were to burn a gallon of gasoline in an ICE vehicle with 25-40% efficiency (or higher if a hybrid), it's going to be more efficient than the BEV, whose grid electrical power was generated by a gallon of gasoline. The electricity may appear cheaper, but we all know that the retail price of gasoline is inflated by taxes, etc.

BEVs are not more efficient OVERALL, unless the power source is somehow more direct / more efficient (hydropower, solar photovoltaics on the rooftop, or catenary distribution).
(And if recharge takes 12 hours or more, they're not going to be convenient for long trips.)

[jetgraphics]

Originally Posted by arjay57

There's that, plus people in the ATL are not hollering for rail mass transit. If there was more popular demand the government would probably be more likely to respond.

Will they holler when gasoline passes $5/gallon?
https://gasprices.aaa.com/?state=GA
ATLANTA
. . . . . . . . . .Regular . . Diesel
Current Avg.$4.326 . . $5.268

[SEAandATL]

Originally Posted by jetgraphics

Will they holler when gasoline passes $5/gallon?
https://gasprices.aaa.com/?state=GA
ATLANTA
. . . . . . . . . .Regular . . Diesel
Current Avg.$4.326 . . $5.268

Probably not for mass transit, but they will holler though.

[jetgraphics]

If rail mass transit was available, so that one could take a "fast" commuter train from the bedroom communities at no farther than 60 miles from the perimeter, so that one would reach the perimeter in 30 minutes or less, then connect with either a fast express, or slow local, to reach one's final destination, I think it would be acceptable.

(Range is calculated for a 1/2 hour trip)
Velocity. . . . . . .mph. . . .km/hr. . range mi. . .range km
Commuter. . . . .100. . . . . .161 . . . 50 . . . . . . 80.5
Express. . . . . . . 50. . . . . . .80. . . .25 . . . . . . 40.2
Local. . . . . . . . . 25 . . . . . . 40. . . 12.5 . . . . . 20.1
(Speeds are average, not peak)

Possible implementations might involve running segregated HSR lines radiating from Atlanta, with an Express speed suspended monorail that coincides with I-285 perimeter. (A suspended monorail can "lean" with the turns).

Local trams/streetcars/lightrail and subways could serve to make final connections.
To further improve service and convenience, employers might contract to have a bus shuttle between their location and the nearest train stop / station.

Another variation : A commuter line would run from one end of a leg, to the perimeter (station), into downtown, and continue out in the same general direction (vector), to the perimeter (station), and run to the end of that leg, and then turn around. (roughly 60 minutes to go end to end)

The express loop around the perimeter, helps connect with the businesses in the periphery.
The belt line would represent the local loop. "Last mile" connections could be made with trams and or electric buses.

If trains were equipped with wi-fi, and had comfortable tables so one could connect, work or eat, the trip would not be a total waste of one's time.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by jetgraphics

If rail mass transit was available, so that one could take a "fast" commuter train from the bedroom communities at no farther than 60 miles from the perimeter, so that one would reach the perimeter in 30 minutes or less, then connect with either a fast express, or slow local, to reach one's final destination, I think it would be acceptable.

Bear in mind that commuting is only a small part (about 20%) of driving.

[beach43ofus]

what's blocking expansion of rail mass transit?

NIMBY, & Billions more of gov't handouts than MARTA is already getting, because rail mass transit is a cash sucking pig.