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My wife and I hail from Orange County, CA. We made the great trek to GA this past year because of the insane Cali housing prices. We got an apartment in Alpharetta, GA to feel out the area a bit for a year before making a decision on which ATL suburb to ultimately settle down to.
After living in Alpharetta for about a year, the prices have only skyrocketed further! (Relatively speaking, of course, since CA prices are on another level). In any case, we've been looking for a home and we found a townhouse that we really like in Sugar Hill. It ticks pretty much all of our boxes and we're about to put in an offer, but I guess I just want to make absolute sure that we are making the right decision, so I thought I'd ask you fine folks for your wise advice and thoughts.
Here are our details of what we're in the market for:
Budget: $450k - 475k Schools: We have a newborn, so we're looking in specific areas that has good schools. Area Feel: My wife and I are in our early-to-late 30's (w/ a newborn), so we'd love to be near a vibrant area that has young professionals and young families. I am from Orange County so I want to be in the suburbs (especially since we've started a family) but still do want to enjoy a bit of fun (albeit not anything too crazy lol). Anything suburbs is preferred, and we'd like to avoid anything too rural or urban. We absolutely love Downtown Alpharetta, Halcyon, DT Suwanee, DT Rosewell, etc. The vibe is great at all those spots. And of course, being in a safe area would be essential. Diversity: I am Korean and my wife is white, so diversity is important. We'd love for our newborn to grow up in an area that has tons of diversity. I also love my Korean food and other types of ethnic foods. Politics: I am left-leaning, but really, I am not very political. I just can't stand extreme of either side. So Trump-country or woke-city are big turnoffs. Although having lived in LA for a number of years, I can at least tolerate strong liberals. So blue areas are very much preferable, though red is fine as long as it's just conservative (and not extreme Trumpism). Home type: Obviously a single family home would be nice, but it's hard to find anything within our budget, especially since we're looking for at least a 4-bedroom home or a 3-bedroom home (plus basement), so townhomes are A-OK in our book. CAVEAT: Traffic: We know (and have experienced) the legendary traffic issues that Atlanta has, but we both work from home so it's not too much of a factor for us. We figure it's just a way of life here (like LA).
Areas we love (but feel priced out):
- Alpharetta, Roswell: Amazing towns - they're awesome but alas, so many homes here now are pretty much out of our budget.
- Johns Creek: We actually prefer the homes in this area over Alpharetta and Roswell! But it's less vibrant than Alpharetta.
- Milton: Beautiful homes, but felt a bit country-ish, low on diversity, and...oldish?
- Suwanee: We LOVE this area! Probably the favorite out of all the areas, but man, it's gotten pretty expensive now
- Parts of Duluth, Decatur: Love that they have a big Korean population but it's also priced us out
SUGAR HILL: So we ultimately landed on Sugar Hill because: 1) we found a 4-bedroom townhouse that's right in our budget. 2) it's only 5 minutes away from DT Suwanee 3) it's a new-build so maintenance would be low for first-time home buyers like us
QUESTIONS:
- How is Sugar Hill? Do you think it fits our bill, given our above profile? Is there anything that we might be missing that we should be considering in our decision-making?
- Is this area safe?
- How is the school system? We have heard conflicting reports about Lanier School system. Some say it's ok, some say it's pretty good and others have said we should be looking for a home in the North Gwinnett school system since it's so much better (although obviously more expensive).
- Is Sugar Hill an up-and-coming area? When we drove around it, it looked a little bit rural-ish but a lot of construction seems to be everywhere.
And lastly, are there any other areas that we should check out? Or is there something we should be reconsidering in the other towns that we love? I would absolutely love to hear your thoughts! We've only been here in GA for a year and I feel like I still don't know GA at all other than a handful of towns! Are places like Grayson, Snellville, Loganville areas we should be considering? We've seen homes on redfin and they're not only absolutely gorgeous, but they fit well within our budget. But we have no idea (and they also have a much more rural, country feel to them). At the end of the day, we wouldn't mind buying a home in an area that is positioned in a couple years to be like Alpharetta, Johns Creek, etc.
Thank you so, so much in advance and for sticking through my long post!
The area north of Atlanta is kind liken to Orange County.
It's the upper middle class growth that is generally wealthier and has more expendable income. There is a very strong tech base along the GA400 corridor and it spreads out to I-85 and I-75.
Sugar Hill is up and coming. 20 years ago it was more exurban and now it's more upper middle class suburban with lots of room to still develop. There will likely be some heavy growing pains in the next 20 years from new development.
North Gwinnett is a really good highly rated school. The school system (Gwinnett Co.) is traditionally extremely highly rated and is one of the only school system to receive the Broad Prize for urban school systems twice. It is the state's largest school system by a good bit. They're ahead of the curve. There is a contreversy right now, because they cut back on punished behavior in the schools and things got out of control. It's a transition of political power from white Republicans to a mostly black Democrat school board. There is obviously some long-term distrusts and they are out to make any changes they think might have been unfair in the past, like certain races getting disciplinary action more often. However, in North Gwinnett it should be a great, stable school for some time to come. It's a really nice area.
It is a great place to be Korean. There is a very large Koren retail community that centers on the old Gwinnett Place Mall area at I-85 and Pleasant Hill Rd area in Duluth. You will find a very large Korean from north of Lilburn to Duluth up to Johns Creek and Suwanee and it spills out of the area a bit, so it's a good place to Korean and/or a bi-racial family. The Gwinnett Place mall area has the Megamart and H Mart and tons of Korean businesses. That mall use to be a big deal in suburban Atlanta back in the '90s and absolutely had a quick fall to obscurity very quickly, since about 2005. Asian business, largely Korean businesses, have really moved in and propped up the area and it's fairly busy except for the mall and one or two large aging strip malls.
The one thing I will caution you on is the townhome. I think you're likely pretty safe with it, however higher priced townhomes are somewhat of a relatively new thing in the area without being intown.
If you go back over 10 years ago a townhome in Gwinnett is considerably cheaper and doesn't get the long-run home value price increases single family homes with yards get. These newer townhomes are much larger, better looking, and have more amenities. However, the long-range stability of them hasn't been tested, unless you're in a really nice area ITP or in or adjacent the Perimeter or Cumberland area.
So while not a risk, if you see a single family home you like and can afford... it may end up being a better investment. This is an unknown. These townhomes are getting much more common now.
Gwinnett is purple turning blue county, but the area you're looking to move into is a more reddish area. You should be relatively safe in terms of aggressive politics, but you will some a little bit of a pro-trump element. Probably not as much as Forsyth Co., Flowery Branch, or Barrow County.
Thank you @cwkimbro, this is such tremendous insight and so helpful.
I have heard very good things about the North Gwinnett school system. What have you heard in regards to the Lanier School system that Sugar Hill is a part of?
Also, do you have any thoughts on Snellville? We have heard from some friends who have lived in GA for awhile that it is the next area to “blow up.”
Grayson is also another area that we’ve heard has a lot of young professionals and up and coming. I know that places like Snellville and Grayson are much more “rural” but if they are trending towards the Alpharetta-like suburb trajectory, we’d be open to exploring those areas. Because of our budget, our line of thinking we have to be “ahead of the game” so to speak in terms of getting to an area before it explodes.
What you’ve shared about the new type of townhomes is a very interesting point and something we have not thought of. I will have to talk about it with my wife as it does give us some pause. We do absolutely prefer the single family homes but man, all the ones we love are all about $100k above our price point almost universally across the board on all the towns/areas we like. Very unfortunate. Feel like we missed the boat by a year. Sigh.
Thank you @cwkimbro, this is such tremendous insight and so helpful.
I have heard very good things about the North Gwinnett school system. What have you heard in regards to the Lanier School system that Sugar Hill is a part of?
Also, do you have any thoughts on Snellville? We have heard from some friends who have lived in GA for awhile that it is the next area to “blow up.”
Grayson is also another area that we’ve heard has a lot of young professionals and up and coming. I know that places like Snellville and Grayson are much more “rural” but if they are trending towards the Alpharetta-like suburb trajectory, we’d be open to exploring those areas. Because of our budget, our line of thinking we have to be “ahead of the game” so to speak in terms of getting to an area before it explodes.
What you’ve shared about the new type of townhomes is a very interesting point and something we have not thought of. I will have to talk about it with my wife as it does give us some pause. We do absolutely prefer the single family homes but man, all the ones we love are all about $100k above our price point almost universally across the board on all the towns/areas we like. Very unfortunate. Feel like we missed the boat by a year. Sigh.
I will shy away from saying anything specifically about Lanier. I assume it would continue to be a good school with the trajectory of growth in that area, as well, but I don't have specific knowledge of it.
My family is from the Parkview area, which is just south of Brookwood where the Snelleville area starts. It is a very nice area, but it does differ from Western Gwinnett a little bit. It is a bit less busy, a bit more spread out, and a bit more middle to upper middle class, than solid upper middle class.
The area doesn't fetch as much of a premium as being in easy commute to GA400/Alpharetta corridor, but it does get some solid white collar suburban growth for workers still commuting intown and along the I-85 corridor in Gwinnett.
What makes the area very nice is that it is far enough away from I-85 that there aren't many apartments and a limited number of townhouses and the community is much less transient, but is close enough it is in easy access to it.
The line of schools along I-85: Meadowcreek, Berkmar, Discovery, and Central Gwinnett tend to be more transient and apartment friendly areas and that has an impact on the schools and the socio-economic character of the area
The line of schools just past that: Parkview, Brookwood, and Grayson... and possibly Archer end to be more sought after and fairly stable and is mostly just quiet single family homes. Brookwood, in particular, is a stand out and one of the best schools in the county. The neighborhoods are also a bit quieter, lots of two-lane roads between them and be more swim and tennis communities. Parkview tends to have an advantage for those still commuting intown as the stone mountain freeway is accessible with relatively little to no traffic all the way to I-285.
Now here is the weird thing Grayson is the weaker of the 3, because it is far out of town. However, it is where there are more millennials. The housing is just newer and cheaper. Parkview was very much developed and settled by the baby boomer generation and that is starting to change now. Brookwood is somewhat in the middle, but there are going to many empty nesters. This area is also hyper-diverse in every way. Think along the lines as a 25/25/25/25 split white, black, hispanic, and Asian.
Grayson has been a growing suburban area for awhile now. It won't turn Alpharetta-ish. This area won't be a 'jobs corridor.' It is primarily housing with retail services. You won't see major suburban office parks. It stays quieter further from the freeway.
I would choose this area over western Gwinnett if you still want good schools, but want a quieter area with larger yards and slightly cheaper housing options or more house for the money. The school district is important. You can also get better intown commutes and easy access to Decatur and easy drives to the airport. But you are further from GA400 and somewhat further from Perimeter Center (but not much further).
I would choose Sugar Hill if you want something newer, easy amenity access for the upper middle class into North Fulton and easy access to the GA400 corridor. I also think the housing stock will be relatively newer, and likely more suburban millennial influenced, since it is newer.
One problem Western Gwinnett traditionally has had is that the area is more socioeconomically mixed, espcially further south down I-85. It has some of the richest neighborhoods in the county along the Chatthoochee River, especially near Peacthree Corners, but near I-85 it has cheap areas that are packed with aging apartments. This mix makes the school situation interesting in that they are good schools, but always with a big asterisks*. East/South of I-85 you lose that rich premium along the river, but the schools with the I-85/apartment influence are separated. Things get quieter further from I-85.
If you look south of US78 you will see South Gwinnett and Shiloh, which also encompass the southern side of the Snelleville area. The problem there is it is far away from the I-85 corridor and the economic/jobs influence wanes. There aren't many large job bases going South of there. It actually gets very exurban-ish before you get to I-20. The area is cheaper. The area is also the one are of Gwinnett that I would characterize as traditional white flight/black growth that the South has seen in the past. It is not very diverse anymore is overwhelmingly Black, particularly in the schools. You also will not see a big Asian presence, but you will in the Parkview-Brookwood area.
Here is the school cluster map of Gwinnett, so you can start trying to put some of these trends together I'm highlighting: https://www.gcpsk12.org/Page/24975
One good piece of info about GCPS schools. They post all of the annual accountability reports for every school. You can get all sorts of good information on the schools from test performance and demographic data of the students.
I’m going to call BS on your budget not being able to afford a SFH in your preferred areas though. No need to settle for a townhouse.
I found about 7 homes with basements with 3 bedrooms/2 bathrooms and larger that range in age between 2013 and 1986 currently for sale on the Georgia MLS website listings in the Lanier HS cluster.
But the townhome appears to be an excellent option for the OP and his family because it is a newly-built 4-bedroom townhome that is close to an active area in Downtown Suwanee (Suwanee Town Center) and would generate no maintenance issues in the early going and likely for the foreseeable future.
Sugar Hill is an excellent option for the OP given their housing budget of $475k.
The Lanier school cluster has a different socioeconomic mix than the North Gwinnett school cluster, with the Lanier school cluster having a significantly higher percentage of working-class residents than the North Gwinnett school cluster, which is a significantly more affluent area.
(About 35% of students qualify for free and reduced lunch at Lanier High School compared to only about 11% of students qualifying for free and reduced lunch at North Gwinnett High School.)
But even with the increased number of students from working-class families attending school in the Lanier cluster, the schools in the Lanier cluster are schools of very good quality with above-average academic ratings.
There are also significantly fewer Asian residents in the Lanier school cluster than in the North Gwinnett school cluster.
Currently, Asian students make up about just a little under 9% of the student population at Lanier High School, but make up more than 30% of the student body at North Gwinnett High School.
But even with far fewer Asian students living in the area, racial and ethnic minorities still make up more than 62% of students currently attending Lanier High School.
And even with the very northern tier of Gwinnett County still being the whitest and most conservative area relative to the rest of the county, the population is only going to trend more minority moving forward as demonstrated by the population trends in Gwinnett County as a whole, where the population has gone from being about 96% non-Hispanic white in 1980 to only about 33% non-Hispanic white today.
Sugar Hill is a very good choice because not only is it a very safe area that provides access to the active downtown village area at the Suwanee Town Center, but Sugar Hill also provides good access to other nearby active downtown village areas in Buford, Duluth, Lawrenceville and Norcross as well as Alpharetta.
Sugar Hill also has its own burgeoning downtown village area that has a popular ice rink, coffee shops, restaurants, bars and other shops and businesses.
Sugar Hill also provides to access to the large retail commercial area at and around the Mall of Georgia in Buford, and to the large big-box store-dominated retail commercial area at GA-20 and GA-400 in Cumming.
Last edited by Born 2 Roll; 01-01-2023 at 01:25 AM..
LOL at you calling areas like Sugar Hill, Snellville and Grayson “rural.”
Though, I will very much acknowledge that for someone like you who is coming from a much more densely heavily developed area like Orange County, California; much of the Atlanta suburbs (with their extremely heavy tree cover and much lower density of development) is understandably going to look and feel much more rural by comparison.
But it probably should be noted that, with nearly 1 million residents, Gwinnett County (where outer-suburban communities like Sugar Hill, Snellville and Grayson are located) is the second-most populous county in Georgia and is the 8th-most populous county in the part of the country that is located south of the Washington DC metro area and east of Texas.
Gwinnett County also has an increasingly diverse population (that is only about 33% white at this point in time) and has the largest school system in the state of Georgia (GCPS - Gwinnett County Public Schools) and roughly about the 13th-largest school system in the entire U.S.
So please keep in mind that, even with the admittedly infinitely much more pastoral look and feel of much of Gwinnett County and the Atlanta suburbs when compared to Southern California, many people around these parts don’t think of a suburban county like Gwinnett as being rural, but instead think of Gwinnett as being a very urban county by the standards of an admittedly much more rural-feeling and looking state like Georgia.
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Originally Posted by CA2GAnewbies
Also, do you have any thoughts on Snellville? We have heard from some friends who have lived in GA for awhile that it is the next area to “blow up.”
Grayson is also another area that we’ve heard has a lot of young professionals and up and coming. I know that places like Snellville and Grayson are much more “rural” but if they are trending towards the Alpharetta-like suburb trajectory, we’d be open to exploring those areas. Because of our budget, our line of thinking we have to be “ahead of the game” so to speak in terms of getting to an area before it explodes.
Southern Gwinnett County areas like Snellville and Grayson and even Loganville (which straddles the line between Gwinnett and Walton counties) definitely have experienced tremendous amounts of growth and transformation from sparsely developed and populated rural areas to heavily developed and populated suburban communities.
But the reality is that nowhere else in the greater Atlanta metropolitan area is one likely going to find an area that is going to be on an Alpharetta-like trajectory in terms of growth.
That is because Alpharetta is a unique area whose stunningly explosive growth into a highly-affluent and influential outer-suburban commercial powerhouse was sparked and generated by the presence of the GA-400 (Georgia State Route 400) freeway through the area north of Atlanta.
GA-400 is basically a spur freeway that was built through the area north of Atlanta between the late 1960’s and the early 1990’s as a developmental highway that was intended to significantly reduce the historical deep poverty and virulent social and cultural isolation of far North Fulton and Forsyth counties by providing a long-term investment and development-generating direct highway connection between Central Atlanta and the North Georgia Mountains.
The area along the entire GA-400 corridor (Buckhead, Perimeter Center, Roswell, Cumming, Dawsonville and ESPECIALLY Alpharetta) took off like a rocket into the stratosphere (and has never really looked back since) when the last section of GA-400 was completed through the Buckhead area in 1993.
1993 is also the same year that (the now aging but formerly very upscale) North Point Mall opened in Alpharetta in an era when metro Atlanta was riding sky-high in anticipation of hosting the 1996 Summer Olympic Games. So the geographical location and conditions that propelled the Alpharetta area into suburban dominance are extremely unique and are not likely to be found elsewhere in the Atlanta region.
Numerous suburban business parks started popping up along the GA-400 corridor through North Fulton County in anticipation of the completion of the GA-400 expressway through Buckhead in the early 1990’s, which provided a nearly-direct expressway link (via Interstates 85 and 75) to the world’s busiest airport (Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport) on the south side of town.
And those suburban business parks (along with increased upscale commercial development in the Buckhead and Perimeter Center areas) started generating more upscale retail and residential development and increasingly affluent residential communities while attracting large numbers of very high-paying jobs along the GA-400 corridor through North Fulton and Forsyth counties.
The nearby presence of Lake Lanier and the relatively nearby presence of the foothills and ranges of the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Georgia (both of which have long been used to market the area to real estate buyers) have also played key roles in fostering the continued robust growth of the area.
And as the area grew with upscale development and affluent residents, the schools in the area very significantly improved to eventually become some of the highest-rated schools in the Southeastern U.S., which helped to increasingly attract the tech industry activity which is a dominant feature of the area today.
You’ll find numerous fast-growing and significantly improving areas throughout Atlanta’s greater Northern suburban crescent (Cobb, Cherokee, North Fulton, Forsyth and Gwinnett counties), but you very likely will not find any other suburban or exurban community that will be on the same earth-shattering growth trajectory that Alpharetta has been on over the last 30 years.
Though, you will find at least some of the explosive growth and transformation that Alpharetta has experienced spilling over (or pouring over) the county line from Alpharetta and North Fulton County into Cumming and South Forsyth County.
So if you want some idea of where Alpharetta’s explosive growth and diversity transformation may be headed, it’s very likely headed north up the GA-400 corridor to Cumming and central and North Forsyth counties.
(Forsyth County reportedly currently has the fastest-growing Asian population (mostly Asian Indians with some South Koreans) of any county in the entire U.S.)
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Originally Posted by CA2GAnewbies
What you’ve shared about the new type of townhomes is a very interesting point and something we have not thought of. I will have to talk about it with my wife as it does give us some pause. We do absolutely prefer the single family homes but man, all the ones we love are all about $100k above our price point almost universally across the board on all the towns/areas we like. Very unfortunate. Feel like we missed the boat by a year. Sigh.
The recent run-up in housing prices in the North Atlanta suburbs seemed to be at its peak from about April 2020 (after significant numbers of people seemingly started leaving higher-priced states like California and New York for lower-priced states like TX, GA, TN, NC, SC and FL about a month after the start of the pandemic) through about early-mid 2022 and seems to stretch back to at least about 2015. So it’s probably been significantly longer than a year since prices of the most desirable detached single-family homes in the most desirable areas have been within your budget of $475k and under.
The North Gwinnett school cluster is better than Lanier schools, & more Koreans in N. Gwinnett, but prices are higher, and traffic along Suwanee-Dam road is terrible. Living in both areas, you'll be dealing w/ traffic along Peachtree Industrial Blvd, & state rd 20, & I-85...ugh!
Sugar Hill/Lanier has more Hispanics, & more crime than Suwanee because Suwanee is more upscale and has its own police dept, and more HOA communities. There have been some large drug busts in Sugar Hill...mostly Hispanics who are illegals, or recent immigrants.
Sugar Hill parks are not as crowded as Suwanee's, if your kids play youth sports. Gwinnett parks & youth spots programs are overcrowded in the North Gwinett area...George Pierce Park was a zoo when we lived there (2004-2017). It was so bad, I had our Son play in Buford, & Duluth Parks to escape the hoards of N. Gwinnett parks.
I'd still view Sugar Hill, as mostly safe....better than Duluth, unless you are in a guarded area of Sugarloaf in Duluth. I'd feel safe in unguarded Sugar Hill a lot more than unguarded Duluth. A friend was a GWinnett County Police Sargent, & he lived in our guarded community, and felt the restricted access reduced crime...but its no guarantee to eliminate all crime. He said the stats in that area were better for gated communities, especially if the gate was manned, which ours was.
The town center of Suwanee is nicer than Sugar Hill's imho. Parking for both town centers were not well thought out for larger events. The designated parking areas for both overflow quickly during events.
The Suwanee Library is very nice, but you could use that one even if you live in Sugar Hill since they are County Libraries.
Politically, Suwanee will be center-right, and Sugar Hill slightly more towards the center. The County is moving left however, which is one reason we left. Gwinnett County swung Dem, just as we were leaving in 2017, & they dumped School Super (Alvin Wilbanks) which we saw as a very bad sign. Gwinnett's property taxes are high for what you get too....overcrowded parks & schools w/ trailers...even though most schools are good.
Forsyth County is preferable to the area you are looking at overall value, but Cumming lacks a town center like Suwanee & Sugar Hill have, & the affordable parts of Forsyth County are in the Northern edge, & it will feel remote, & politically further Right than Sugar Hill, or Suwanee. Forsyth County Parks are superior to Gwinnett's, & property taxes are less...libraries comparable. Forsyth schools are better too...Forsyth traffic is not as bad overall, but Peachtree Parkway is a zoo, as is state rd 20....its still no walk in the park during rush hours. 400 isnt as bad as 85, but still crowded, stop and go during rush hour.
Look at the elementary school the neighborhood feeds into, & ck the ratings there. If not well-rated, check out other areas.
We left the area you are looking at because our Son was going off to college (he graduated from N Gwinnett), I'm self-employed so can live anywhere, the property taxes had just eclipsed $10k for our home & were rising too fast, traffic was getting unbearable, & we no longer needed a 5 bedroom 5 bath, 6,000 sq ft home (never did, but the gated community was nice so we went larger than we needed). The area's population density around the High School had worsened in our years there, & by the time we left, we felt like Sardines.
I felt Gwinnett County had seen its best years, and was now in decline as the bad elements front points South were enroaching up into Duluth, & had already destroyed Gwinnett Place Mall, & were pushing North. Sugarloaf County Club's master planned community is all that stands between the high crime areas around the shuttered Gwinnett Place Mall area, and Suwanee.
I feel like we got out just in time. If I moved back, I'd move to Forsyth County, or even futher North up 400 in Chateau Elan.
Last edited by beach43ofus; 01-01-2023 at 07:07 AM..
My wife and I hail from Orange County, CA. We made the great trek to GA this past year because of the insane Cali housing prices. We got an apartment in Alpharetta, GA to feel out the area a bit for a year before making a decision on which ATL suburb to ultimately settle down to.
After living in Alpharetta for about a year, the prices have only skyrocketed further! (Relatively speaking, of course, since CA prices are on another level). In any case, we've been looking for a home and we found a townhouse that we really like in Sugar Hill. It ticks pretty much all of our boxes and we're about to put in an offer, but I guess I just want to make absolute sure that we are making the right decision, so I thought I'd ask you fine folks for your wise advice and thoughts.
Here are our details of what we're in the market for:
Budget: $450k - 475k Schools: We have a newborn, so we're looking in specific areas that has good schools. Area Feel: My wife and I are in our early-to-late 30's (w/ a newborn), so we'd love to be near a vibrant area that has young professionals and young families. I am from Orange County so I want to be in the suburbs (especially since we've started a family) but still do want to enjoy a bit of fun (albeit not anything too crazy lol). Anything suburbs is preferred, and we'd like to avoid anything too rural or urban. We absolutely love Downtown Alpharetta, Halcyon, DT Suwanee, DT Rosewell, etc. The vibe is great at all those spots. And of course, being in a safe area would be essential. Diversity: I am Korean and my wife is white, so diversity is important. We'd love for our newborn to grow up in an area that has tons of diversity. I also love my Korean food and other types of ethnic foods. Politics: I am left-leaning, but really, I am not very political. I just can't stand extreme of either side. So Trump-country or woke-city are big turnoffs. Although having lived in LA for a number of years, I can at least tolerate strong liberals. So blue areas are very much preferable, though red is fine as long as it's just conservative (and not extreme Trumpism). Home type: Obviously a single family home would be nice, but it's hard to find anything within our budget, especially since we're looking for at least a 4-bedroom home or a 3-bedroom home (plus basement), so townhomes are A-OK in our book. CAVEAT: Traffic: We know (and have experienced) the legendary traffic issues that Atlanta has, but we both work from home so it's not too much of a factor for us. We figure it's just a way of life here (like LA).
Given your wants, needs, and budget: Sugar Hill, and in particular the Lanier HS cluster, is a perfectly acceptable place to live. I'd say Sugar Hill is far from a "mistake". It meets most of your criteria.
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Areas we love (but feel priced out):
- Alpharetta, Roswell: Amazing towns - they're awesome but alas, so many homes here now are pretty much out of our budget.
- Johns Creek: We actually prefer the homes in this area over Alpharetta and Roswell! But it's less vibrant than Alpharetta.
- Milton: Beautiful homes, but felt a bit country-ish, low on diversity, and...oldish?
- Suwanee: We LOVE this area! Probably the favorite out of all the areas, but man, it's gotten pretty expensive now
- Parts of Duluth, Decatur: Love that they have a big Korean population but it's also priced us out
I would say that your assessments here are spot-on (with the major exception being that there are actually very few Koreans in Decatur). I agree that Suwanee -- especially near the Town Center -- would be the absolute best fit for your family if you can afford it.
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SUGAR HILL: So we ultimately landed on Sugar Hill because: 1) we found a 4-bedroom townhouse that's right in our budget. 2) it's only 5 minutes away from DT Suwanee 3) it's a new-build so maintenance would be low for first-time home buyers like us
QUESTIONS:
- How is Sugar Hill? Do you think it fits our bill, given our above profile? Is there anything that we might be missing that we should be considering in our decision-making?
- Is this area safe?
- How is the school system? We have heard conflicting reports about Lanier School system. Some say it's ok, some say it's pretty good and others have said we should be looking for a home in the North Gwinnett school system since it's so much better (although obviously more expensive).
- Is Sugar Hill an up-and-coming area? When we drove around it, it looked a little bit rural-ish but a lot of construction seems to be everywhere.
- I think that Sugar Hill (Lanier cluster) is a solid choice given your criteria and budget -- but I think you should additionally consider other places as well before making a final decision.
- Sugar Hill, for the most part, is exceedingly safe.
- The Lanier schools are rated decently, but not spectacularly. Compared to its highly-rated southern neighbor (North Gwinnett cluster), the ratings are a good bit lower, but this can be mostly explained by a significant population of lower-income, English-second-language Hispanic immigrant families in the Lanier cluster which does not really exist in the North Gwinnett cluster. Additionally, the Lanier cluster lacks wealthy/high income neighborhoods which are present in the North Gwinnett cluster. There really aren't too many differences in curriculum/teacher quality/etc. between North Gwinnett schools and Lanier schools; it's mostly socioeconomics (North Gwinnett has few low-income students). I will say that Lanier's neighbor to the east (Buford City Schools) produces superior academic results to Lanier despite roughly similar socioeconomics.
- The Sugar Hill area (and in particular the Lanier cluster) is very diverse -- in terms of race, income, politics, occupation, religion, etc. Overall, the area feels very "middle-class" (as opposed to "upper-middle-class" in Alpharetta, Johns Creek, Forsyth County, etc.)
- I would say Sugar Hill both is -- and is not -- "up-and-coming". The city has done a nice job of developing its Downtown in the past few years, which has attracted quite a few young singles/couples to the immediate area (new apartments) and injected some vibrancy into the area. Also, new amenities such as the "Sugar Hill Greenway" trail are nice, and their parks are nice too. However, the new-construction "urban homes", like you see in Alpharetta, Suwanee, etc., have not materialized in Downtown Sugar Hill (and it will be a long time before they appear, if ever). There has not been a rapid influx of wealthy young families (like Suwanee and especially Alpharetta) into Sugar Hill, and probably never will be, due to a lack of upscale amenities, distance from employment centers, and lack of top-rated schools. Overall, I would say Sugar Hill is relatively stable -- don't expect for it to become like Alpharetta anytime soon, but don't expect for it to become a dump either.
Also, to answer address some of your previous concerns...
- Politics in Sugar Hill are center-right (conservative) trending towards center-left (liberal). It's in Gwinnett County, which is "blue". You would be unlikely to encounter political extremism.
- As for traffic... that could be a problem down the road if you or your wife ever want/need a new job with in-office requirements, as Sugar Hill isn't super close to the major employment centers (Alpharetta, Duluth area, Gainesville, etc.)
- Sugar Hill is close to two "vibrant" city centers (Suwanee Town Center and the new Downtown Sugar Hill). Coming from Orange County/Alpharetta, the area may feel a bit "rural" for your taste, but by Atlanta standards, Sugar Hill's a typical "suburban" area.
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And lastly, are there any other areas that we should check out? Or is there something we should be reconsidering in the other towns that we love? I would absolutely love to hear your thoughts! We've only been here in GA for a year and I feel like I still don't know GA at all other than a handful of towns! Are places like Grayson, Snellville, Loganville areas we should be considering? We've seen homes on redfin and they're not only absolutely gorgeous, but they fit well within our budget. But we have no idea (and they also have a much more rural, country feel to them). At the end of the day, we wouldn't mind buying a home in an area that is positioned in a couple years to be like Alpharetta, Johns Creek, etc.
Gwinnett County is definitely where you want to be, especially for budget reasons as well as proximity to the Korean community/amenities. Specifically, I would primarily consider places in Gwinnett County to the north/west of I-85. Below, I'll compare and contrast the Lanier cluster (Sugar Hill) with some other school clusters you could consider.
Lanier cluster:
- You can afford a new townhome or even an older single-family home here.
- The schools are rated decently, but not exceptionally.
- Very diverse area in almost every way, though primarily White/Hispanic
- "Middle-class" feel
- Fairly close to Suwanee Town Center and Downtown Sugar Hill
- Not too far away from Korean community
- Stable outlook (my opinion)
North Gwinnett cluster:
- You'll have a difficult time finding a home within budget, though a recently-built townhome such as this one might work.
- The schools are rated exceptionally.
- Somewhat diverse; mostly White/Asian and upper-middle-class
- "Upper-middle-class" feel
- Super close to Suwanee Town Center and not far from Downtown Sugar Hill
- Near the heart of the Korean community. Close to H-Mart, Korean restaurants, and Duluth.
- Stable outlook (my opinion)
- My top pick for you, if you can afford it.
Buford City Schools:
- You may have a difficult time finding a home within budget, as Buford is increasingly desirable but rather small. An older single-family home like this could work for you, though that home is at the top of your price range.
- The schools are rated exceptionally. Buford City Schools is actually its own district, independent of Gwinnett County Public Schools. It has the look and feel of a private school, in some respects (their facilities are beautiful). Students, parents, and teachers I know of all seem to love Buford Schools. There's Buford Elementary for pre-K to Kindergarten, Buford Academy for 1st-3rd, Buford Senior Academy for 4th and 5th, Buford Middle for 6th-8th, and Buford High for 9th-12th.
- Somewhat diverse; mostly White and Hispanic/Latino with a small but rapidly-growing Asian community as well as a small Black community.
- "Middle-class" feel
- Close to Downtown Sugar Hill and Downtown Buford, but these aren't quite as vibrant as Alpharetta/Suwanee equivalents.
- Quite distant from the Korean community, but not terribly far away. The Korean community is slowly making its way toward Buford.
- Improving outlook (in my opinion), especially if Buford develops its downtown more.
- It's pretty far from... everything (except the Mall of Georgia and Lake Lanier).
Peachtree Ridge cluster (west of I-85):
- You'll have a difficult time finding a home within budget, especially in the Hull MS area. You may be able to find something east of I-85 (Northbrook MS area), but I would not advise it (stay west of I-85). You'd be looking at an older townhome or old and small single-family home.
- The ESs/MSs west of I-85 (Burnette ES, Parsons ES, Mason ES, Hull MS) are rated exceptionally, as is the high school (Peachtree Ridge), though I feel that the high school is trending down a bit and will be rated roughly equivalently to Lanier HS in a decade or so.
- Quite diverse, but kind of segregated (the more residential communities near the river and away from I-85/Satellite Blvd are primarily Asian/White and upper-middle-class, while the apartment communities near I-85 are primarily Black/Latino and lower-middle-class/working-class.
- Equal feelings of "upper-middle-class", "middle-class", and "lower-middle-class"
- Close to Downtown Duluth and Suwanee Town Center.
- At the heart of the Korean community; super close to multiple stores, restaurants, etc.
- Stable outlook (my opinion)
Seckinger cluster:
- It should be fairly easy to find a relatively new and up-to-date single-family home here.
- The schools are rated very highly, particularly Ivy Creek ES and Harmony ES as well as the middle school (Jones MS). The high school is brand-new (just opened in August) and should be rated highly as well. The high school is a "theme" school, with a first-in-Georgia Artificial Intelligence (AI) focused curriculum.
- The area is very diverse in terms of race/ethnicity, but overwhelmingly middle-class in terms of income.
- Very "middle-class" feel.
- Not close to any vibrant towns like Alpharetta/Suwanee. Very close to Mall of Georgia though.
- Quite distant from the Korean community, but not terribly far away (just a quick drive on I-85). The Korean community is slowly making its way toward this area.
- Stable outlook (my opinion)
- Far away from almost everything (except Mall of Georgia)
Duluth cluster:
- You should have a much easier time finding a good house in this cluster.
- The schools range in rating from good to not-so-good, slowly trending towards "not-so-good".
- "Middle-class" feel to "working-class" feel, depending on the neighborhood.
- Super close to Downtown Duluth and not far from Downtown Norcross and Peachtree Corners Town Center
- At the heart of the Korean community; super close to multiple stores, restaurants, etc.
- Declining outlook (my opinion), with the exception of the area immediately surrounding Downtown Duluth and maybe near Gwinnett Place Mall (which will soon be redeveloped into the "Global Villages").
- Closest to places like Alpharetta, Atlanta, Perimeter, etc. of all of the clusters I have mentioned.
You could also consider the Brookwood and Parkview clusters like others have mentioned. The schools are rated very highly, but the homes are much older (though you could definitely afford them), it's far away from vibrant town centers, and it's not especially close to the Korean community near Duluth (though not terribly far away either).
EDIT: I just saw your response to, and additional questions for, cwkimbro.
No, Snellville and Grayson are not about to "blow up", in my opinion. Both are too far away from employment centers and upscale amenities. Snellville's (Brookwood cluster) appeal is "good schools + close to every chain restaurant and big-box store", and Grayson's (Grayson cluster) appeal is "good schools + relatively-affordable new-construction homes".
Last edited by DoubleZ OTP; 01-01-2023 at 10:59 AM..
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