Mary Lin Elementary parents will fight potential rezoning; petition calls for ouster of APS leadership (Atlanta: mortgages, home)
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Some parents of students at Mary Lin Elementary School are digging in to fight a potential rezoning of the school as Atlanta Public Schools prepares to kick off a series of community meetings to reveal its proposals to alleviate overcrowding at several campuses.
About 80 Mary Lin PTA members attended a special Feb. 13 meeting via Zoom where most of them voted to approve sending a letter to Superintendent Lisa Herring and the Board of Education urging them to keep the school in the Midtown Cluster ..."
Some parents of students at Mary Lin Elementary School are digging in to fight a potential rezoning of the school as Atlanta Public Schools prepares to kick off a series of community meetings to reveal its proposals to alleviate overcrowding at several campuses.
About 80 Mary Lin PTA members attended a special Feb. 13 meeting via Zoom where most of them voted to approve sending a letter to Superintendent Lisa Herring and the Board of Education urging them to keep the school in the Midtown Cluster ..."
Mary Lin Elementary should be moved to the Maynard Jackson High Cluster.
You know they will fight tooth and nail to prevent that from happening. There was some talk about reopening Coan Middle School after Toomer and I believe one other school are renovated.
I have even heard ideas about reopening Crim High School to alleviate overcrowding at Jackson, but I don’t think that would happen either. The standard upon its opening would have to be extremely high to attract Kirkwood/Edgewood families.
Ironically, Kirkwood/Edgewood families had the same extreme pushback when they were rezoned from the then Grady Cluster to Jackson. Now, I don’t see them wanting to leave Jackson. But of course, those families were not nearly as resourced and connected as the Mary Lin parents are.
You know they will fight tooth and nail to prevent that from happening. There was some talk about reopening Coan Middle School after Toomer and I believe one other school are renovated.
I have even heard ideas about reopening Crim High School to alleviate overcrowding at Jackson, but I don’t think that would happen either. The standard upon its opening would have to be extremely high to attract Kirkwood/Edgewood families.
Ironically, Kirkwood/Edgewood families had the same extreme pushback when they were rezoned from the then Grady Cluster to Jackson. Now, I don’t see them wanting to leave Jackson. But of course, those families were not nearly as resourced and connected as the Mary Lin parents are.
What should be done:
Mary Lin to Jackson Cluster.
Reopen Coan.
Coan Middle: The feed is Mary Lin, Toomer, BPA
King Middle: The feed is Parkside, Benteen, and Obama
Jackson High: The feed is Coan and King
Dunbar to Washington Cluster
Centennial Academy to Washington Cluster
Howard Middle: The feed is Va-Hi, Morningside, Hope-Hill, and SPARK
Midtown High (should be called/renamed Piedmont High): The feed is Howard
Mary Lin to Jackson Cluster.
Reopen Coan.
Coan Middle: The feed is Mary Lin, Toomer, BPA
King Middle: The feed is Parkside, Benteen, and Obama
Jackson High: The feed is Coan and King
Dunbar to Washington Cluster
Centennial Academy to Washington Cluster
Howard Middle: The feed is Va-Hi, Morningside, Hope-Hill, and SPARK
Midtown High (should be called/renamed Piedmont High): The feed is Howard
Looks good. But I don’t think that would relieve projected overcrowding at Jackson HS. Essentially, it would be replacing Dunbar students with Mary Lin students. There has been a somewhat clandestine push to slice Dunbar out of the Jackson Cluster for many years. I think it works geographically. But I think the idea of cutting off the most low-income/at-risk students in the Cluster and zoning them for Washington (with the highest percentage of at-risk/low-income students) would cause quite an uproar. Especially if Mary Lin is then brought into the Cluster.
I’ve mentioned it in older related threads, but I think most families will not view Washington as desirable until the majority of the students who live in the cluster actually send their children there en masse. But until that happens, Dunbar parents would view being cut from the Jackson Cluster and annexed into Washington as the ultimate insult. Of course, if that were to happen, it would instantly and drastically change the makeup of Jackson HS, King MS, and the entire Jackson Cluster.
Ironically, Mary Lin parents view being zoned from Midtown to Jackson like Dunbar parents view being zoned from Jackson to Washington.
Looks good. But I don’t think that would relieve projected overcrowding at Jackson HS. Essentially, it would be replacing Dunbar students with Mary Lin students. There has been a somewhat clandestine push to slice Dunbar out of the Jackson Cluster for many years. I think it works geographically. But I think the idea of cutting off the most low-income/at-risk students in the Cluster and zoning them for Washington (with the highest percentage of at-risk/low-income students) would cause quite an uproar. Especially if Mary Lin is then brought into the Cluster.
And one more tiny bit of irony—I believe of the three predominantly white elementary schools zoned for grady—Lin historically had the highest support for the Grady cluster—but that was when there was more of a difference between
I’ve mentioned it in older related threads, but I think most families will not view Washington as desirable until the majority of the students who live in the cluster actually send their children there en masse. But until that happens, Dunbar parents would view being cut from the Jackson Cluster and annexed into Washington as the ultimate insult. Of course, if that were to happen, it would instantly and drastically change the makeup of Jackson HS, King MS, and the entire Jackson Cluster.
Ironically, Mary Lin parents view being zoned from Midtown to Jackson like Dunbar parents view being zoned from Jackson to Washington.
I wonder if Inman went to a 5th grade academy, as originally proposed, would have made moving of Lin impossible (many Lin parents fought against that, too)—if so, double irony.
And, I think that historically the Lin folks have been a bit better than the other predominantly white neighborhoods at supporting the Grady-Midtown cluster—but that is from back when the personalities of the neighborhoods were more pronounced—Lin was a bit more hippy than the other neighborhoods—but now things are much more homogenized—there are some echos of the hippy days—but hippy creds are out the window when you pay 400k for a teardown.
Guessing a lot of Lin parents would rather have the 5th grade academy than go to the Jackson cluster.
We are in Lin—guessing if Lin does move, the Jackson cluster won’t be too far off of what Inman-Grady was when we first moved here 8 years ago—and there was a rezoning going on then, too. Some families in Lin left the cluster preemptively then.
Guessing a lot of Lin parents would rather have the 5th grade academy than go to the Jackson cluster.
We are in Lin—guessing if Lin does move, the Jackson cluster won’t be too far off of what Inman-Grady was when we first moved here 8 years ago—and there was a rezoning going on then, too. Some families in Lin left the cluster preemptively then.
True indeed regarding the bolded statement. I remember that time also. The same thing happened with Grant Park/Kirkwood families who tried to avoid King/Jackson. A small percentage still do try to move away and/or send their kids to private school. However, many of them end up trying to come back when they realize that most of their neighbors’ children who remain in the Jackson Cluster still end up going to top colleges with scholarships, etc. Most of these students participate in Jackson’s growing IB Program. But another shade of irony is that when students/families try to avoid King/Jackson and then try to return in 10th or 11th grade, it is usually more work for the student because they often miss the prerequisite courses that many private schools do not offer (at least not in the proper order to participate in IB and meet their graduation requirements, etc.)
This is also part of the tremendous growth at North Atlanta HS during the recession. Once Buckhead families realized that students from North Atlanta were getting into Georgia Tech, UGA, Emory, even the Ivy League schools without paying any tuition, whereas some students from Westminster, St.Pius, Pace, Woodward, etc. were being denied, the student population at North Atlanta tremendously increased from then on.
Families of Jackson Cluster parents who moved to Decatur (or at least somehow enrolled in Decatur HS, the New School, or the like) often try to return when they realize the grass on the other side isn’t as green as they thought. Or more accurately, their perceptions of their own community schools led them to believe that the grass on their side isn’t as green as it actually is — when all they had to do was stay and water it with their neighbors.
Last edited by equinox63; 02-18-2023 at 06:53 AM..
True indeed regarding the bolded statement. I remember that time also. The same thing happened with Grant Park/Kirkwood families who tried to avoid King/Jackson. A small percentage still do try to move away and/or send their kids to private school. However, many of them end up trying to come back when they realize that most of their neighbors’ children who remain in the Jackson Cluster still end up going to top colleges with scholarships, etc. Most of these students participate in Jackson’s growing IB Program. But another shade of irony is that when students/families try to avoid King/Jackson and then try to return in 10th or 11th grade, it is usually more work for the student because they often miss the prerequisite courses that many private schools do not offer (at least not in the proper order to participate in IB and meet their graduation requirements, etc.)
This is also part of the tremendous growth at North Atlanta HS during the recession. Once Buckhead families realized that students from North Atlanta were getting into Georgia Tech, UGA, Emory, even the Ivy League schools without paying any tuition, whereas some students from Westminster, St.Pius, Pace, Woodward, etc. were being denied, the student population at North Atlanta tremendously increased from then on.
Families of Jackson Cluster parents who moved to Decatur (or at least somehow enrolled in Decatur HS, the New School, or the like) often try to return when they realize the grass on the other side isn’t as green as they thought. Or more accurately, their perceptions of their own community schools led them to believe that the grass on their side isn’t as green as it actually is — when all they had to do was stay and water it with their neighbors.
Some rambling slightly random thoughts and guesses:
Just looking at the numbers—I am guessing that Centennial goes from K-8 to K-5 and their older kids move to Howard Middle. *If* a rezone out of Midtown is inevitable (and they may just kick the can down the road)—either Morningside gets zoned to North Atlanta, or Lin goes to Jackson. I guess if Morningside goes north it might add about 200 kids to North Atlanta High and 150 to sutton middle. (I doubt that they will zone Centennial out of Midtown—I can’t see the board zoning the school into becoming predominantly white).
In the short run, if Lin zoned for Jackson—guessing that 100 Lin kids go to the Jackson High (150 that would have gone to Midtown opt out of APS), 75 to the middle (125 opt out of APS). The Lin retention numbers will start going up within 5 years. But Jackson will also continue to retain a higher percentage staying in APS within its school zone at the higher grades —so that will quickly become a wash —and then some (and more over-crowding). I can’t see any real rezoning options that the board won’t be hated by somebody for choosing—(not totally true—Druid Hills could petition to be part of Atlanta and Lin could be zoned for DHHS, but the zoning gods don’t love the board that much).
I have been told by a Grady parent whose child did get into an Ivy, that a school’s status as Title I (ie. more poor students)—does help in Ivy admissions—I am guessing it is the same for other schools as well. I don’t think either Grady or North Atlanta have been Title I since about 2020. Jackson will be Title I for a while—which could actually be a plus for college admissions.
Still, in the short term, those in the Lin school zone would probably take a hit on property values—not nearly as bad as it probably would have been 8 years ago—and if interest rates don’t go crazy and the economy doesn’t tank—it won’t be too bad—and values will recover as the demographics of Jackson inevitably changes. But a change in school zones mixed with a rough economy could make quite a few folks upside-down in their mortgages—it may seem like a small thing on the outside—but when *you* are the one taking a hit—or even losing a home—it is a very big deal—just keep that in mind before spilling too much vitriol on the ones affected.
Some rambling slightly random thoughts and guesses:
Just looking at the numbers—I am guessing that Centennial goes from K-8 to K-5 and their older kids move to Howard Middle. *If* a rezone out of Midtown is inevitable (and they may just kick the can down the road)—either Morningside gets zoned to North Atlanta, or Lin goes to Jackson. I guess if Morningside goes north it might add about 200 kids to North Atlanta High and 150 to sutton middle. (I doubt that they will zone Centennial out of Midtown—I can’t see the board zoning the school into becoming predominantly white).
In the short run, if Lin zoned for Jackson—guessing that 100 Lin kids go to the Jackson High (150 that would have gone to Midtown opt out of APS), 75 to the middle (125 opt out of APS). The Lin retention numbers will start going up within 5 years. But Jackson will also continue to retain a higher percentage staying in APS within its school zone at the higher grades —so that will quickly become a wash —and then some (and more over-crowding). I can’t see any real rezoning options that the board won’t be hated by somebody for choosing—(not totally true—Druid Hills could petition to be part of Atlanta and Lin could be zoned for DHHS, but the zoning gods don’t love the board that much).
I have been told by a Grady parent whose child did get into an Ivy, that a school’s status as Title I (ie. more poor students)—does help in Ivy admissions—I am guessing it is the same for other schools as well. I don’t think either Grady or North Atlanta have been Title I since about 2020. Jackson will be Title I for a while—which could actually be a plus for college admissions.
Still, in the short term, those in the Lin school zone would probably take a hit on property values—not nearly as bad as it probably would have been 8 years ago—and if interest rates don’t go crazy and the economy doesn’t tank—it won’t be too bad—and values will recover as the demographics of Jackson inevitably changes. But a change in school zones mixed with a rough economy could make quite a few folks upside-down in their mortgages—it may seem like a small thing on the outside—but when *you* are the one taking a hit—or even losing a home—it is a very big deal—just keep that in mind before spilling too much vitriol on the ones affected.
Good points. But I don’t know if I would consider my commentary vitriol. And as you may remember, after any controversial rezoning, if any home values reduce, they often come roaring back within a matter of a few years (after the initial dust settles). I think the number one issue for people involved is the perceived quality of the schools. You may have been around when people were trying to leave Grady because they felt it was too “transitional”. But I suppose these things happen in somewhat predictable phases/stages.
Also, I believe as of this upcoming school year, Jackson will no longer be Title 1. So they will lose a large amount of funding and will need to determine more creative ways to invest in certain programming. But again, Grady/Midtown went through this same process years ago. I’m pretty sure neither Midtown or North Atlanta are Title 1. In fact, I believe Hope-Hill is the only school in the Midtown cluster that is still Title 1 — for now.
I should also add that while Jackson (and even BTW students to lesser degree) get into the Ivys. The point I was making is that North Atlanta HS’s enrollment ballooned during and shortly after the “great recession” because students who attended private schools were still denied by certain universities who accepted IB students from NAHS — and I don’t think NAHS has been Title I for a while. In fact, I think much of their supplemental funds come from the third party Buckhead Foundation.
At the end of the day, I know why people on all sides are worried. But I cannot think of an APS rezoning in recent history that didn’t result in a net positive — unless we are referring to the BTW Cluster. I actually think the Washington Cluster should extend all the way to the connector (75/85). That alone would solve most of the overcrowding issues at Jackson & Midtown. But I think most of the apprehension comes from a fear of the unknown — and quite frankly, a certain fear of the student/parent population as well as doubt about quality teachers in the school. That explains why the BTW Cluster is the small sliver that it is now.
I have learned over the years that students/parents literally make or break a school. But I know this is not comforting or common knowledge to those not in education—especially those with elementary/middle school children. But I have never heard of an otherwise successful student that was somehow handicapped academically or resorted to or became a victim of drugs, crime, or violence because they were rezoned to a less homogenous school — at least not in Atlanta. But I know this fear drives many family’s decisions (and I get that). But if someone is scared to swim or fly an airline for the first time, my discussing the safety of the pool and the plane is not a diss to the person that is afraid — but I’m rather just making the comment that (similar to swimming and flying commercially) people do it all the time and end up just fine.
I know people say, “I’m not gonna experiment with my child?” But is it really an experiment when the schools have similar resources and countless other students have graduated and achieved success from these schools?
It is almost like families avoiding Candler Park because they heard anything south of Ponce is unsafe or rife with crime. You and I both know that is not true. But it is hard to shape the perceptions of those who have never been there or experienced it… I think a similar analogy can be made when discussing the parents’ perceptions of many of these schools that we are discussing.
Last edited by equinox63; 02-19-2023 at 08:24 AM..
Good points. But I don’t know if I would consider my commentary vitriol. And as you may remember, after any controversial rezoning, if any home values reduce, they often come roaring back within a matter of a few years (after the initial dust settles). I think the number one issue for people involved is the perceived quality of the schools. You may have been around when people were trying to leave Grady because they felt it was too “transitional”. But I suppose these things happen in somewhat predictable phases/stages.
Also, I believe as of this upcoming school year, Jackson will no longer be Title 1. So they will lose a large amount of funding and will need to determine more creative ways to invest in certain programming. But again, Grady/Midtown went through this same process years ago. I’m pretty sure neither Midtown or North Atlanta are Title 1. In fact, I believe Hope-Hill is the only school in the Midtown cluster that is still Title 1 — for now.
I should also add that while Jackson (and even BTW students to lesser degree) get into the Ivys. The point I was making is that North Atlanta HS’s enrollment ballooned during and shortly after the “great recession” because students who attended private schools were still denied by certain universities who accepted IB students from NAHS — and I don’t think NAHS has been Title I for a while. In fact, I think much of their supplemental funds come from the third party Buckhead Foundation.
At the end of the day, I know why people on all sides are worried. But I cannot think of an APS rezoning in recent history that didn’t result in a net positive — unless we are referring to the BTW Cluster. I actually think the Washington Cluster should extend all the way to the connector (75/85). That alone would solve most of the overcrowding issues at Jackson & Midtown. But I think most of the apprehension comes from a fear of the unknown — and quite frankly, a certain fear of the student/parent population as well as doubt about quality teachers in the school. That explains why the BTW Cluster is the small sliver that it is now.
I have learned over the years that students/parents literally make or break a school. But I know this is not comforting or common knowledge to those not in education—especially those with elementary/middle school children. But I have never heard of an otherwise successful student that was somehow handicapped academically or resorted to or became a victim of drugs, crime, or violence because they were rezoned to a less homogenous school — at least not in Atlanta. But I know this fear drives many family’s decisions (and I get that). But if someone is scared to swim or fly an airline for the first time, my discussing the safety of the pool and the plane is not a diss to the person that is afraid — but I’m rather just making the comment that (similar to swimming and flying commercially) people do it all the time and end up just fine.
I know people say, “I’m not gonna experiment with my child?” But is it really an experiment when the schools have similar resources and countless other students have graduated and achieved success from these schools?
Sorry, I know that it was your post was the one I was replying to (in my defense, I did describe my note as random ramblings)—but I did not think it was vitriolic —it’s just the direction these sort of discussions have headed in the past seem to attract folks that can only see one point of view—it is good that this one has stayed respectful.
I am surprised that Jackson is losing Title I so soon after North Atlanta and Grady.
edit: just looked it up—(if I am reading it right) Jackson went from 75% free school lunch to 41% in just one year—those numbers are crazy! (2020 to 2021)—another source has Jackson at 43% this year.
Last edited by jeoff; 02-19-2023 at 08:53 AM..
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